Search this Topic:
04/04/07 05:39 PM
Quote:Take Ravu's arguments for example, he started this thread to clearly list luck as a factor, yet ignores lucky factors completely in his list. Is he just trying to ignore the facts? Or is there something obviously missing in his argument.
04/04/07 05:40 PM
04/04/07 05:43 PM
04/04/07 05:44 PM
Quote:Yeah, but what does twisting the game up and making it enjoyable to watch have to do with anything? Jonathan caused a bunch of twists and turns on CI and I don't think he ever had much of a shot at winning after the final nine (probably earlier). If anyone twisted the game up in Pearl Islands, it was Lill anyway.
Quote:It's considered good luck that the goat Brian had planned on taking to the final two for the duration of the game "sucks"? Of course Clay sucked, that's why Brian took him to the end. If Clay had won the last IC, I think this would be a more fitting argument
Quote:Good luck for Jenna--men didn't boot her at F5 when she wanted out
Quote:Vecepia gets a C for challenges, with two individual wins and a poor tribal record, but Amber gets a D with one individual win and a great tribal record?
Quote:Having the idol and being immune at every TC isn't good luck?
Quote:Likewise, Ozzy and Sundra not forcing the idol out at F5? The Cook Islands cast = "intelligent, game-centered"? Yet Rich, Tina, Ethan, and Brian are penalized because they faced "weak" competition? Come on. The S13 cast is probably the weakest after Borneo and arguably Thailand. "Smartest and strongest opponents ever"? Huh?
Quote:Challenge = A - Come on, he was strong in tribal challenges, but he didn't win a single individual one. Challenge-wise, he's much closer to Ethan than Tom.
Quote:One thing I would point out, I'm not sure why anyone should be penalized for having good luck. Part of strategy is finding your advantages and capitalizing on them.
Quote:You've done a great job with this, but it kind of feels like you came up with a ranking first and then listed all this stuff to support it instead of the other way around.
04/04/07 05:51 PM
04/04/07 07:42 PM
04/04/07 08:05 PM
Showed true gamesmanship when she got screwed at tribal switch and
successfully persuaded Chaboga Mogo to keep her over Jerri
(2) You can't just ignore All-Stars, because you want to. It happened. The way I think of it, All-Stars = season of very bad luck for previous winners. It doesn't mean their chances were 0% though. Compare it to Fiji. 1 tribe had a serious disadvantage, but you don't just write the season off as if it didn't exist. Also, Will Kirby got to the final 4 of the Big Brother All-Stars, so it IS possible for big targets to survive and thrive if they have the skill
Quote:You might have just named this thread "Luckiest Winners" and listed all their luck. And yet, you forgot to list the most important factors of luck: such as attractiveness, hair color, intelligence, eye sight, etc.
(2) Had some tough competition, especially gameplayer Rob Cesternino
04/04/07 08:13 PM
Quote:Good point. Anyone who denies that their looks were a factor in Jenna and Amber's wins are lying. Jenna often had the target off her back because she was attractive (for example the guys targetting the deaf girl at the merge, the one girl they should have been trying to get on their side, instead of the two hot girls Jenna and Heidi). And if Amber looks like Debb Eaton, she never has an alliance with Boston Rob, and never wins ASS.
04/04/07 08:15 PM
04/04/07 08:16 PM
Quote:Amber staying at F10 in ASS had absolutely nothing to do with her. It had entirely to do with Lex and Kathy thinking they had an alliance with Boston Rob that was formed from outside of the game, and Rob implying to Lex at the immunity challenge that he'd help him out if he kept Amber. If those two things didn't occur, Amber's gone, no matter how much fake pleading she did.
Quote:Amber did nothing great 'socially' in her season (which you gave her an A for). She was slighly better socially than Boston rob. Who played arguably the worst social game ever. Thats not deserving of an A.
Quote:I would actually say it was the opposite, she had some extremely weak competition. Amazon has IMHO the stupidest cast in the history of the show. A large number percentage of the cast had no strategic game whatsoever (Matt, Butch, Christy), thought way too highly of themselves (Roger, Heidi), or made ridiculously stupid decisions that cost themselves the game (Dave, Deena, Alex, Christy).
04/04/07 08:19 PM
Quote:^true, but the jury rewarded jenna for her superior game
Quote:I disagree with you there. I thought AMAZON had a lot of good players.
04/04/07 08:41 PM
Quote:When ranking winners, I try to determine who won mainly from skill versus who mainly won from luck.
Quote:1 thing I liked about All-Stars (which I know old fans hated) was that it showed me how contestants handled different contexts where many of them automatically had lots of bad luck (AKA being huge targets).
Quote:Will Kirby from Big Brother demonstrated that not all winners are automatically dead coming into a game
Quote:Completely new twists
Quote:Generally speaking, the winners of the latest seasons have had the most competition.
Quote:Brian, Tina, Hatch, and Ethan are in the lowest tier, because they had a lot of luck combined with some of the weakest Survivor competition ever.
Quote:Those in the top tier had the toughest competition overall in both quantity and quality.
Quote:Yul is also in that group, because although his victory was narrow, he won against 2 other people
Quote:(1) Environment allowed him to use providing abilities
Quote:(4) Naïve Opponents = free ride to final 5
Quote:Seans alphabet voting system ensured Pagong dominance, while also saving Hatch, who was the secondary target that council
Quote:Age or homosexual disadvantage?
Quote:B. Bad Luck
Quote:Almost got votes tied up in episode 9 and 13
Quote:Had basically guaranteed his way into the final 2 at final 3
Quote:However, he remained targeted and his plan backfired, because he hadnt cultivated any allies.
Quote:Challenge = D
Quote:Being on the same tribe as Jerri
Quote:Indirectly revealed boot order at 2nd tribal council. This gave Tina the heads-up
Quote:Colby = Tool
Quote:Pre-votes & vote leak which got Mitchell & Jeff eliminated
Quote:Rodger & Elisabeth
Quote:Jerri voted against Coby, not really for Tina
Quote:However, her reputation as a social game genius died in All-Stars.
Quote:Any potential reputation as a strategic genius died in All-Stars.
Quote:It proved that shell thrive when underestimated, but fails under adversity as an actual target
04/04/07 08:42 PM
04/04/07 08:45 PM
04/04/07 08:50 PM
04/04/07 08:54 PM
Quote:Explain to me why then
04/04/07 08:55 PM
04/04/07 09:02 PM
Here is why:
Jenna was a GREAT player...very under-rated in my opinion.
Matt- I felt he became a good player towards the end, but his jury performance was really bad.
Butch- I thought Butch was a good player; he was in a good position at the merge when the men outnumbered the women and Matt/Alex/Rob told him the men would stick together.
Butch also had a great work-ethic and was a very honest player.
Heidi- Don't have too much to say about her...but her "mastermind" speech at Tribal Council was one of the funniest things ever.
Alex- Yes, telling Rob he was gone at F4 was dumb...but he would have made F3 if he DIDN'T tell him this and if he stuck with the guys at the merge, he would have been in the F4.
Deena- I thought she was a REALLY good player...but her plan to boot Alex backfired
04/05/07 01:45 AM
Quote:Then explain why. She won for one reason and one reason only, winning the final 2 immunity challenges. She was a great individual challenge performer, winning four challenges, but strategically she wasn't great, and socially she wasn't great, just better than one of the most socially inept people in game history.
Quote:Explain how. He was completely clueless. He made one good move in throwing the final challenge, but that really was irrelevent because he couldn't beat either of the other two left.
Quote:No, he wasn't in a good position at the merge, he was outnumbered 7-3, and like Roger and Dave stupidly alienated Christy by voting for her when they should have done the exact opposite and tried to get her on their side. As I've said before, the 'chain' thing where Rob spoonfed idiot Matt on survivor strategy and Matt then turned around and spoonfed Butch is arguably the one of the funniest things I've ever seen on Survivor.
Quote:Thats all hypothetical. The fact is, he made one of the stupidest statements in game history and got immediately voted out for it. Horrible player.
Quote:Again, the fact that she wanted to boot a member of her own alliance over Matt, Butch or Christy, the fact that she set it up such that Matt would win immunity at that very TC shows that she isn't that great a player. Like Alex appeared to be good, but then completely blew up her game. Bad player.
04/05/07 03:48 AM
Share This Link
Message board courtesy of Survivor Sucks member support.
Benevolent dictatorship courtesy of Survivor Sucks Admin Idoits.
© 2017 Yuku. All rights reserved.