Will wrote:
The question is, kelly fans, is she singing the Air Supply arrangement of Without You?
(This is the same "Without You" known as it's true name "Ken Lee" right?)
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BBSpencer |
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Will wrote: |
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RobbinAmber |
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KellysMomCalledMeFine wrote: Clay's version was the Harry Nilson version. |
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KellysMomCalledMeFine |
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Um, no.
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8trackmind |
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People keep talking about "what the judges want" as if it is some unchanging entity, determined mostly by who was in the previous season's finale
and top 10. However, what they want in the FALL (when the auditions are held) can change drastically by the LATE WINTER (when the semifinalists go live). The
difference? By the winter, the first CDs by the previous year's winners have come out. And if Kris' and Adam's CDs both flop, the judge could find
themselves having once again concentrated on finding white guys who sing whitebread pop or rock, and then wanting something else.
Season 8 was not only dominated by guys, it was positively misogynistic. Kara's influence, maybe? She sure doesn't like other women much. Or perhaps it was the relative success of the 2 Davids (1.8 million CDs combined sales, distinctly more than the top 2 of the 2 previous seasons)? But I suspect that if they could, the judges would have picked Matt, Anoop and Ricky from the Wildcard and had 9 guys and 3 girls. And bad female Wildcard selections aside, they were amazingly nasty to the women they did have. Alexis got dumped as fast as they could, Allison wasn't properly appreciated till well into the finals, and even Lil (the only women they seemed to want in the finals at all) got overly criticized at the end. They desperately need to go back to the top 24 format next season. Talented women having off nights like Mishovanna and Kendall got shafted by the format, along with talented guys like Ju'Not and Nathaniel (he's almost as much of a drama queen as Tatiana and looks like he's Diana Degarmo's sister, but he may have had the best voice of anybody in the semis). Meanwhile, non-singers like Scott and Michael got voted through. The whole thing was WAY too prone to manipulation by the judges, which is of course why they changed it in the first place. I suspect we'll see better women next year, simply because it's almost impossible not to. Even leaving the judges out of it, the women in semis groups 1 and 2 systematically self-destructed to an incredible degree, with horrid song choices and performances. Group 3 women did better overall, but the judges were determined that only Lil would make it through, so none got picked for the Wildcard. So next year I am hoping to see some better white women, maybe even including a few that DON"T have model type figures. It's also possible, though not likely, that Idol might pick some good black guys for the semis and then not treat them as a joke on the show. |
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bumlets1 |
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8trackmind wrote: I agree that the semis this year were awful. They really need to change back next year. Then we can weed out the Michael Sarvers. |
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Screerider |
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8trackmind wrote:I guess I'm not seeing how people who get voted into the Top 3 of their 12 person gender-mixed group are somehow not going to get voted into the Top 14, Top 12, and then Top 10 or their single-gender groups. I have no problem with the Group format. It's a lot easier for marginal singers to skate by in the Semis format, since they only really have to be better (or more liked) than 2 others in their group. With the Group format, you have to be better (more liked) than 9 others. That's a lot harder for marginal singers to pull off. |
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Drew B |
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But it's so easy in the groups format for somebody to NOT make it due to a lack of screen time or a performance that's good-but-not-great. If somebody
like that potentially has several weeks to make an impression, they may be able to overtake the Sarver's of the world (see Sundance Head).
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joenic40 |
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Nobody has mentioned - they could even try to do a Susan Boyle clone.
If another guy wins, I have a feeling we will have a country guy winner. |
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Hunterdonn |
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Clay Aiken looks kind of creepy.
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Screerider |
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Drew B wrote:Iif they gave a mediocre performance, maybe, just maybe, they're just the sort of marginal singer that shouldn't make it through that we're talking about. So you'd just be switching a Sarver with a mediocre (your Sundance Head example is apt). Really, when it comes to the mediocre group, it really doesn't matter which fodder makes it to the Top 12. They ain't going to win.
Last Edited By: Screerider
06/08/09 3:57 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Drew B |
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Screerider wrote: My Sundance example was supposed to parallel the Sarver paradigm -- somebody who had gotten a lot of attention from the judges but didn't deserve to make the finals. That season, because others had a chance to build some momentum over the three weeks of the semifinals, they could beat Sundance out for a spot in the finals. If there had been a group situation that year, Sundance probably would have made the finals just because he was better known than most... Really, when it comes to the mediocre group, it really doesn't matter which fodder makes it to the Top 12. They ain't going to win. I disagree with this. I think that Jordin Sparks was EXACTLY the sort of "fodder" who wouldn't have made it through in the group scenario, but was able to escape elimination through the semis and build up speed. Heck, who knows if Cookie would have made it to the finals if it had been a one-shot do-or-die scenario... |
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Screerider |
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There are losers who make it through to the Top 12 in the semis format. This cannot be denied, unfortunately. I think the Group format this years allowed for 9
with sizable fanbases (warranted or not), plus 4 more the judges saw talent in. Yet, losers will make it though in this format as well. This cannot be denied
either, unfortunately. It's really just a trade-off. Losers with larger fanbases out-of-the-gate, or losers with smaller fanbases who just manage to beat
out losers with even smaller fanbases.
I don't know which group Ms. Sparks might have found herself in - probably not unreasonable to think she'd be a Wild Card. Can't really be sure she would or wouldn't make it, right? I like "one-shot do-or-die" performances better than "safe" ones. Probably why I enjoy the NFL's Playoffs better than regular season games. |
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Drew B |
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Screerider wrote: I loved Jordin's performance week one of the semis, but the judges didn't. Simon, in particular, lambasted her. I wouldn't be surprised if she wouldn't have been invited to compete as a wild card after that, depending on whom else they had to save... |
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Screerider |
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Or perhaps, she'd have been voted in by the viewers. You probably weren't the only one who loved her performance.
Speculate all we want, but when you look at the Top 12's for Semi's seasons, there's a lot of crappy folk in there. Yeesh, it's downright embarrassing. Not that it's a whole lot better with Groups, but I hardly see anything compelling to indicate that the end result of the Semis' Top 12 being demonstrably better. |
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Drew B |
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Screerider wrote: That would depend if she was even invited to perform as a wildcard... |
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Screerider |
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? If the viewers voted her through in her Group, she wouldn't need to compete as a Wild Card.
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Drew B |
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Screerider wrote: I'm sorry. I was confused. I was thinking that you meant voted through by the viewers in the wildcard. It could have happened, I guess, but the vibe at the time was that she was in danger of being one of the four to go home that week. I know they had her in the bottom. If she was legitimately that low on the pecking order, she would only have come close to getting in if she was in the most godawful group ever... |
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Screerider |
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According to the judges, not the viewers, I suppose.
Still, to think the unpimped can't make it through in the Group format, look at Kris Allen. Was "Man in the Mirror" a good-but-not-great performance? Pretty much. |
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Miss Alley Shack |
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That's an easy one. Kris wouldn't have lasted past F8 if he looked like Jorge Nunez.
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survivorjordancontestant |
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that doesn't change the fact that he was not pimped at all throughout the semis or before hand. and that ugly motherfucker Nunez was voted through.
the looks argument is moot, just look at all the himbos that did not get voted through in the first 3 seasons. oh and Kelly Clarkson was also unpimped. the one shot format allows for more excitement in the competition as opposed to the top 24 elimination format where contestants quickly lost steam (and quite frankly the entire season felt stale by the time we were down to the top 8). The finals felt much more like a big deal this year as opposed to previous years because we weren't sick of the finalists yet. If anything the big fault to the format this year is that they went all the way abck to season 1's 3 people getting through each week when it would have been easier to just divide the groups by gender.
Last Edited By: survivorjordancontestant
06/09/09 3:01 AM.
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