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 sunsawed |
Survivor China - Ep 7 Story Arcs |
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Posts: 7456 (10/26/07 6:40 AM) MESS SPECtrometer |
TODD IS GOD!
What's the deal with Todd? We all know his arc is "so OBVIOUS the winner, he can't POSSIBLY be the winner." How can he lose? Discuss. eta. How long were you going to let that 6 stay up there?
Last Edited By: sunsawed 10/27/07 12:11 AM.
Edited 1 time.
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 ts2 |
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Posts: 999 (10/26/07 7:05 AM) MESS member |
What I found most interesting in his story is that we were left with a "cliffhanger". Who would win out? Todd's gut about JeanRobert.
Amanda's gut about keeping the numbers.
Seems Amanda made the most persuasive argument in accordance with the vote. |
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CFmomma |
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Posts: 2504 (10/26/07 7:31 AM) MESS member |
I believe Amanda's gut feeling was bang on the money; JR is a relatively easy boot later on. He could potentially win individual immunity but he is
unlikely to be a challenge beast and with his less than loveable personality he is still bootable. Interesting, that he was perceptive enough to pick up on the
negative camp vibe and yet the ones who dislike him so much, think he is completely oblivious to their feelings.
Just based on what we have seen todate, my guess is that Todd and Amanda are the F2. |
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crocophile |
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Posts: 9477 (10/26/07 7:48 AM) MESS Moderator |
Todd was shown vascilating two times...the first was to include Amanda in on the HI clues. That and her getting her way with the boot show me Amanda's not
only coming to the forefront as a player on TV, but also as a leader in the game... Not only that but she looks hotter in her swimsuit than in her undies
Courtney "J-R is more likely to write my name down than is Sherea" Oh really?!? As pointed out in the PBP thread she seems well liked by most of the FL.
Last Edited By: crocophile
10/26/07 7:52 AM.
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ts2 |
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Posts: 1000 (10/26/07 7:57 AM) MESS member |
Amanda's reasoning was indeed much better. I just thought it interesting that editing is sooooooo pointing to a Todd win, yet Amanda was shown with the
smarter take on the game, at least in reference to this boot option.
I also find JR's edit to be interesting. He does have a pretty good feel for camp. And honestly, with the casual viewers I know, he is seen as quite sympathetic. Even I think the crap he gets is overblown. There must be stuff we don't see. Of he is being unjustly yapped at because yapping about him is just the thing to do. |
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Hairy Bells |
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Posts: 15 (10/26/07 8:16 AM) |
ts2 wrote: I'm thinking Todd is pushing Amanda to "make the call" so as to keep Courtney happy (probably not possible). Hasn't Todd waffled before
on a decision and "let" someone else do the dirty work? I've thought Todd was puppet-stringing someone earlier in the game, but can't
remember the situation. (Need coffee) I agree on the JR thing. No one has particularily shown much love for JR but Courtney is non-stop whiney about
the guy. Geez. Boot her already!
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ts2 |
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Posts: 1001 (10/26/07 8:38 AM) MESS member |
Todd said he let Aaron make the call on the Leslie boot. Aaron made the call. Todd's hands stay clean.
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erickman |
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Posts: 19466 (10/26/07 10:16 AM) MESS member |
all is well with the world the strongest guy has the idol, an the other one will probly not be found. i think todd is king brian lite he did the right thing
for him an his alliance but he over worryed giving james the idol saved his alliance win or lose the ic challange, they win jamie goes they lose sharie goes
win win ether way.
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James Barber |
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Posts: 10228 (10/26/07 10:29 AM) Registered User |
Todd was shown vascilating two times...the first was to include Amanda in on the HI clues. That and her getting her way with the boot show me Amanda's not only coming to the forefront as a player on TV, but also as a leader in the game...If she was a leader they wouldn't have shown her being told about the clues (it made it look like someone else was doing the work for her), and they might have edited some of that comedy of errors scene where she, Todd, and Frosti were looking for the HII. Amanda and Todd both had valid points about who to keep and get rid of; they could have easily spun the episode as Amanda being the brains and getting what she wanted (picture a confessional where Amanda says Sherea has to go and she doesn't like Todd's indecision), but in the end I thought they instead made it much more of a give-and-take and mutual decision between Todd and Amanda. I thought the episode edited them as partners, for the most part, not Amanda the leader. They could have gone down that road earlier this season and passed up the opportunity. I guess they could still try now, but after all the time they have spent developing other players, the effort will lack impact. I think they're showing us the partnership, so that no matter which one wins (if they are in the end game), we still have some respect for the other. I do know there's a good chance we're going to start seeing all about how Todd's game went to hell, but the fact that they were so blatant about it in the previews make me wonder whether things turn out as bad for him as it seems. They might, but usually even Survivor isn't quite that obvious.
Last Edited By: James Barber
10/26/07 10:34 AM.
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QualityBobby |
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Posts: 3832 (10/26/07 10:39 AM) Registered User |
I agree. It seems to me that they are pushing a partnership. They show more of Todd "leading" the team by showing his thought process in his
confessionals, but giving Amanda's thoughts weight and consideration during their strategy sessions. He seems to value her as a sounding board and
includes her in the decision making process.
They could easily edit it for Todd or Amanda being the outright leader and dragging the other along side, but are going out of their way to show them as being "equals". |
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ts2 |
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Posts: 1002 (10/26/07 10:40 AM) MESS member |
I totally agree about the partnership concept being key to this episode's editing. I just thought it was interesting that Amanda's POV won out.
But you are right. To show her as a power player did require a PI about why her POV was the better option. |
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ratsnsnakes |
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Posts: 584 (10/26/07 10:48 AM) MESS member |
It's an interesting season in terms of editing all around. MB has given most everyone except Erik some decent air time, and made sure that everyone who
gets booted has some significant story time before they go. And obviously the ones who are "colorful characters" get more airtime anyway. I wonder
what the deal is with Erik. So far his story begins and ends with he's on the sucky tribe, he's a virgin and he and Jamie are a pair. Otherwise,
he's a complete cipher. So does that mean he's around for awhile and we'll get more on him later? Probably.
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birdlady |
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Posts: 653 (10/26/07 10:52 AM) Registered user |
I hope we get to see a little more of naked amibition Todd. There was just a second there when Frosti did think the guy might kill him.
Frosti apparently got nothing for stumbling across the idol, and nothing for his enthusiasm in the challenges. The only person he is ahead of in the Fei Long pecking order is Jean-Robert, and he already had that last episode. I believe Amanda's gut feeling was bang on the money; JR is a relatively easy boot later on. He could potentially win individual immunity but he is unlikely to be a challenge beast and with his less than loveable personality he is still bootable.There should have been some consideration of the fact that James is an individual immunity threat, may well have two idols, and has some particular closeness with Denise and with Jean-Robert. I can't believe Amanda nor Todd thought about that, but we didn't see it. Doesn't bode well for James, Denise or Jean-Robert as a strategic player. James in particular seems to be presented to us as a little bit simple. Part of the strategy discussion at Zhan Hu was missing, too. It didn't make any sense for them to just change up and try to win immunity unless there is another part to the conversation. Either, "We have to win immunity and make an alliance with James" or "We have to win immunity because James is over there giving the immunity idol clue to one of them, who may find the idol, who may give it to James". Story-arc-wise, they want us to think Zhan Hu are dumb and short-sighted. Yet we believe Peih-Gee and Erik continue on for a while. |
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Martrae |
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Posts: 751 (10/26/07 11:03 AM) MESS member |
If Courtney keeps making nice to the bootees and underdogs I can completely see her winning simply because she's NOT Todd or Amanda. If Amanda and Todd are
true partners there won't be anything to make either of them stand out as the one who should win. I also think we're gonna see James, Frosti and JR
pretty ticked at the both of them.
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CFmomma |
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Posts: 2507 (10/26/07 12:28 PM) MESS member |
Good points Birdlady but don't forget, we have seen scenes of James being pissed at JR for his lack of work ethic/attitude, so it is not written in stone
that the two would go to the bitter end together. Also, Denise although close to James, is not close to JR, however, she is close to Todd and Amanda. There
really was no value added in ditching JR this time. But reducing ZH by one more player, increases their odds considerably come the merge.
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sunflower100 |
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Posts: 2448 (10/26/07 11:09 PM) Registered user |
yes james is a huge challenge threat, but his old tribe needs him for at least the first vote. they need him at the vote right after the merge so their
isn't a tie. that is why they where trying to save james for this vote. they will want him gone soon after the merge, but they need his vote for this first
couple of votes after the merge.
i think they would have rather aaron stayed, because james is such a huge challenge threat, but they need his vote for a little while. it was clear todd was trying to set aaron up as the figure head to take a lot of the blame in front of the angry jury, so they probably weren't too happy for that reason either. |
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sunsawed |
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Posts: 7458 (10/27/07 12:18 AM) MESS SPECtrometer |
They could easily edit it for Todd or Amanda being the outright leader and dragging the other along side, but are going out of their way to show them as being "equals".Yeah. I see NOTHING pointing to Amanda at this point. Her ENTIRE arc has been about her partnership with Todd. It's almost a ROMBER situation. Amber only won by default because everyone was pissed at Rob (except Shii Ann). If Courtney keeps making nice to the bootees and underdogs I can completely see her winning simply because she's NOT Todd or Amanda. If Amanda and Todd are true partners there won't be anything to make either of them stand out as the one who should win.Courtney as Door #3 will look quite inviting. Anyway, I don't see how Amanda can win. If the Jury respects Toddanda, then Todd wins, because he's going to be seen as the Mastermind. If the Jury loathes Toddanda, Courtney wins. I would expect Amanda, if she was really getting a Winner's Edit to be seen making the end around plays, moreover attracting people to her as an end-around, like TINA got. Even though she was lock-solid with Colby, we were constantly teased with all her options with Liz, Rodger and Keith. It's Todd that holds the options at this point. Amanda giving Todd sage advice beyond his own great game doesn't point to a win for me either. Amber won ASS by getting Rawb to second-guess his own shadow, filling him up with paranoia, not good advice that would HELP him. And getting him to ignore the loud-mouthed trash WHOOOOOOOAH option for the F2. C: There's only so much planning you can do at every stage.THIS is the key to Todd losing, I think. He's over-thinking the game. He thinks he's the only one playing the game. He thinks he can order all the other players around at his Will. He's had it too easy so far. But he has no sense for how his actions may AFFECT the Jury. This is where Ep 6 may be FORESHADOWING the rest of the season. Everyone is pleading their case to stay. Toddmanda say NO! And Courtney fights for them to stay. Especially if Toddmanda does business with PG and Jamie in order to sack the threats: James, Frosti and JR. Then after opposing the alliance with PG and Jamie, Courtney sticks up for them as Toddmanda throws them out like used diapers after clearing the path to "their" victory. |
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crocophile |
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Posts: 9479 (10/27/07 4:17 AM) MESS Moderator |
How about this: He THINKS he's the only one playing the game. He's setting himself up for a fall and getting plenty of blood on himself. Amanda is
being stealth. She is thinking, but not over-thinking like Todd... Todd really blew the HI thing. A failed strategy totally other than getting James to give
him the clue. He didn't have to tell Amanda, (now she knows to keep an eye on him, plus he's exposed himself to James) and very poor planning to
assume they'd win the IC. The other contingency in hand well before the IC.
Last Edited By: crocophile
10/27/07 5:18 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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donutsrule |
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Posts: 87 (10/27/07 6:49 AM) Registered user |
Just going back to people previously saying that Zhan Hu is mentioned near the end of the credits...it's not really. You see NA (granted the A is upside
down)
I've got no idea why that image isn't showing, the link is: http://resources.survivorphoenix.com/graphics/gallery/S15Intro/S15Intro372 and AN 
so I wondered if they meant anything in Chinese. NA led me to this wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo In talking about the culture it says: It is true that they have aspects of a matriarchal culture, in that women are, in many households, the head of the house, property is passed through the female line, and women tend to make the business decisions. But political power tends to be in the hands of males, which disqualifies them as a true matriarchy. AN led me to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_(Chinese_name) which in turn led to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthia The end of this long-lived empire came in 224 CE, when the empire was loosely organized and the last king was defeated by one of the empire's vassals, the Persians of the Sassanid dynasty. Considering how many women are supposed to be left at the end maybe this is showing that the women take Todd down? I'm just thinking out loud, maybe ChynS can help more with this. |
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Alpha 0Mega X |
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Posts: 168 (10/27/07 9:07 AM) |
Todd seems like a distraction to me. He is so over the top strategically and this last failed plan is foreshadowing. He might be another Steph edit. Why
Todd loses
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James Barber |
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Posts: 10236 (10/27/07 2:17 PM) Registered User |
He didn't have to tell Amanda,If he had not told her, and she found out he was doing all this behind her back, she would have had every reason to ditch him as soon as she could. The plan didn't work out the way he wanted (although I didn't think it was a huge failure -- they kept James from being voted out), but I thought his telling most of the people on the team was smarter than only letting James know. That way, potentially shaky alliance members like Denise and Courtney felt like they were in on everything that was going on. |
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