S-24 Edgic (Editing & Logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-24 Edgic (Editing & Logic)

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myopics		#3401	[-]
Posts: 6992 03/25/12 09:31 PM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Pretty in Pink wrote: RockLobsta wrote: This episode ignored her content-wise except for when it edited her to look pretty cutthroat and bitchy talking about Colton's medevac. I don't think this is really a valid point because if it was meant to make her look bad they could have stopped her comment at "a person gone is another person gone" (or whatever she said) . Besides, it's not like Colton was some sympathetic character that we were supposed to be sorry left and hate anyone who sees any potential good in it? The rattle music that played when Alicia gave the seemingly insincere speech about Colton not giving anyone the idol played when Kim talked about "another person gone". It is by no means a dealbreaker for Kim's chances, but I just thought it was a little weird because the consistent message behind any season of Survivor has actually been in line with the POV Kim expressed so I don't get why they tried to diminish it with the music.
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Jedijake		#3402	[-]
Posts: 7561 03/25/12 09:35 PM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	To Kim's credit, everything she says that can be construed as a negative is very much balanced with her own counter statement. I've said this before... Initial alliance: she wasn't all about making alliances so soon but when she was asked she jumped on it Decision to vote out Nina or Kat: makes sense to vote out Kat due to weakness but they (she and Chelsea) need the other girls to trust them Men's shelter: she didn't mind going over to it, but she didn't want to keep schmoozing Making the new alliance: she will stick with the girls or the guys whichever works best for her Finding the idol: this is a good day but she knows there will be some tough times ahead Colton leaving: a person gone is a person gone but it's sad because she knows it must be painful It's a constant weighing of options that she has displayed in her confessionals that makes her edit better than others. It's the edit from the producers that are telling us otherwise. NOBODY in their right mind would ever think that someone who has it made can ever win, right? It's never that easy and anyone who ever says its easy (even for a moment) has absolutely no chance of winning-not by a long shot, right? IF this edit is just so good and she is declared winner THIS early (we shall see) then I'd assume that the confidence or even arrogance she may display (hasn't really happened yet) will create the uncertainty even if it is very much contrived. Not saying she wins, but even the most clear cut winners face obstacles, whether it's through a forced edit, others discussing voting them out, mistrust chaos near the final 5 or 4, or from the jury, get that much needed stress and strain saying "you're not taking this without some blood sweat and tears". And by that time, will the casual viewer with the attention span of a housefly ever remember the time when Kim said it was easy, or will the viewer have to be reminded of that in the reunion show, only to spawn the question from Jeff "Kim, there was a time you said it was easy-do you still have that sentiment?". The real issue is whether the OTHER contestants see her as the big threat as we currently do and how long will it have taken for the other players to pick Kim as the #1 choice of Edgic before it's too late? Last Edited By: Jedijake 03/25/12 09:38 PM. Edited 1 times.
drowsy12		#3403	[-]
Posts: 14281 03/25/12 09:39 PM Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Kim is somehow the female JT - she has everyone wanting to be in an alliance with her even though she's a clear and obvious threat. Whatever she is doing out there we haven't seen anyone call her a threat yet but that has to be coming.
dotsdfe		#3404	[-]
Posts: 2533 03/25/12 10:42 PM Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I find it interesting that, win or lose, Kim is far and away one of the most-developed female players ever. Her edit is very, very strange.
BlakeB717		#3405	[-]
Posts: 4053 03/25/12 11:16 PM Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	dotsdfe wrote: I find it interesting that, win or lose, Kim is far and away one of the most-developed female players ever. Her edit is very, very strange. Okay, we're getting way too ahead of ourselves now. Kim has had borderline complexity for 6 episodes. Besides Ep5, she has not had a substantial CP episode. Plenty of females in SURVIVOR have had terrific edits. Kim's visibility averages around a 2-3 and she has had no tone thus far. To say she is "far and away" the most developed female "EVER" is nonsense. Her edit, given everyone else's, is quite strong; however, in the scope of all female edits in Survivor, albeit one of the better one's, it's no where near "the best." She has yet to have barely any character development; rather, only her strategy has really been fleshed out, and it has been done quietly at that. To name a few women with substantially developed edits at this point: Stephenie, Cirie, Taj, Deena, Helen, Tracey, Shambo, Holly, Brenda, Ami... I think Kim really hasn't been all that developed. We've simply seen the set up, but it hasn't gone anywhere. We've only really learned that she has her head in the game and is keeping her options open. Good for a winner, but we've had way more substantial women in the past for a pre merge edit.
Taterman		#3406	[-]
Posts: 1689 03/26/12 12:00 AM Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Yeah, I agree with Blake. I think it's easy to say that, regardless of whether or not she wins, Kim has one of the best WINNER edits for a female at this point (if not for both genders... Seriously, did Marcus ever have all of Edgic except for one person having him as their top winner pick?) But having a good winner edit isn't neccesarily the same as being developed. But yeah, her edit has definitely been tended to with alot of care, regardless of whether she does win or not.
dotsdfe		#3407	[-]
Posts: 2533 03/26/12 12:41 AM Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The thing is, most of those were developed as characters, but lacking strategic/gameplay development. In that aspect, Kim is doing quite well. The only better pre-merge strategic edits I can think of for a female are Cirie and Brenda, maybe Ami (though hers didn't pick up until post-swap). We just usually don't get to see much of women's gameplay in the edits, especially early on.
Lexxan		#3408	[-]
Posts: 16139 03/26/12 02:33 AM Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Kim is not that developed. Her character and story are tended, that is true, but she's not that CP. Which is good for her, as high-CP winners are more exception than rule... and incidentally women that had CP edits pre-merge have never won the game before.
fat little fingers		#3409	[-]
Posts: 7738 03/26/12 02:44 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Episode 6 Ratings Voting List Alicia OTTN4 Chelsea UTR1 Christina OTTP5 Colton OTTNN5 Greg OTT3 Jay UTR2 Jonas CP4 Kat OTT3 Kim MOR3 Leif UTR2 Mike UTR1 Sabrina MOR3 Troy MOR3 Ratings Explanations, etc... Manono Alicia OTTN4 Christina, "I think Alicia’s generally not a good person. She has a lack of integrity,.." It has to be noted that Colton said the worst things to Christina. Alicia simply grinned and agreed most of the time. Most of Alicia's comments were game-oriented. Her comments were strategic, but the insight was overridden by the OTTN treatment of Christina. We know her simple situation and learned nothing new except how much we dislike her. Christina OTTP Blake gave a great post about why Christina's comments fit OTT. Even Jonas pointed out how relentlessly cruel and personal Colton and Alicia's comments were. Yet Christina's character spoke foremost about caring for another human being in contrast to Colton and Alicia's cynical assumptions. Altruism and sainthood is OTTP in Survivor I'm afraid. Colton OTTNN5 Colton is the one who says all the really nasty stuff. His karma was named, when he said that Christina could be medivaced out for all he could care. Even feeling a little bad for his suffering and having to leave doesn't erase his NN rating. Greg/Tarzan: OTT3 Not quite N, but certainly nothing positive in his content. He gives a Tarzan yell. He talks doctor. He forgets Christina's name. For some reason, he will adopt OTTN Alicia, but he won't be OTTP Christina's friend. That scene had the feel of some sort of game, but it was edited to be much more personal. Jonas CP4 He gives insight into Colton and Alicia. He, again, stands up for Colton, "He is the biggest Survivor fan, ever!" But, he also explains the ramifications for himself with Colton leaving and he believes Colton got the karma he deserved. He makes the big "ringleader" speech, but there is nothing that shows how he will do it, other than Colton simply being out of the way. Leif: UTR2 Leif is still stuck in an OTT role. His sleeping box is repeated. His scene of being pressured to be a swing vote (like with Bill) is repeated. UTR with OTT themes. Salani Chelsea: UTR1 Almost invisible. She doesn't believe Alicia at TC. Jay: UTR2 He likes ice-cream! He doesn't know who to believe at TC. Kat: OTT3 I don't think Kat paid much attention to academics of any kind in school or anywhere else. Kim MOR3 Definitely MOR, with Jeff throwing her all those softballs at TC. Recap: "I just can't get over how this couldn't have gone any better for me." This is the sort of comment that has some of us pushing Jonas to the top of the contender page. Mike UTR1 At the ice-cream reward feast: "This is the one time I'm gonna go all out!" Prophetic words for someone who's fading fast? Sabrina MOR3 The team player. (At least as far as Kim, Chelsea, and Kat are concerned. Look out when Alicia hoochies her way back to camp.) Note, all of Sabrina's comments are about the groups she's in and not about herself in the game. That's been her ongoing problem: "... they’re gonna pick the girls off one-by-one-by-one on the other tribe. By the time we get to the merge, we’re gonna be in the minority. So we’re kinda fighting an uphill battle." ".. it just re-energized us so we know what winning feels like and the reward feels like; we wanna keep doin’ it.” At TC she is shown nodding in agreement with Kim's comments. And she correctly guessed that Colton did take his HII as a souvenir: "In my gut, I believe it..." Troy MOR3 Troy continues to be pleased with his new tribe. He's quick to dismiss the new Manono as "...just a bunch of misfits. They’re a goofy, goony clan. I mean I, you know, I’m trying to play it down a little bit, but we’re kicking their ass..." Loyalty to your original alliance is another theme to keep an eye on. Who has turned on alliance members? Alicia - natch. Chelsea was tempted. Sabrina wanted to turn on Alicia. Jay made sure Mike wasn't part of his new alliance with Troy and Kim. Now we hear Troy calling his old Misfit Alliance goofy and goony. Contender List Top (5) Kim The edit has covered all her bases. The game seems handed to her on a silver platter at this point, but in reality it has been. Lookng Good (4) Has Potential (3) Jonas Where is the up-side to the men's season-long poor play. Colton ran them like a flock of sheep. Jonas' whole story is tied to Colton. Edit has Flaws (2) Troy - All his speeches have been so emotional: joy, anger, freaking out about the Bill/Leif situation. Yet, "too emotional" is his charge against the women. Sabrina - Solid character, but stuck in speaking for the tribe instead of for herself. Barely Hanging On (1) Jay Mike Chelsea Eliminated (0) Alicia Christina Greg Jay Kat Leif Last Edited By: fat little fingers 03/26/12 02:47 AM. Edited 1 times.
Lexxan		#3410	[-]
Posts: 16139 03/26/12 02:48 AM Reply Quote More Recent Posts	WAIT FOR ME PHOENIX. I'll rewatch during the day and then post my ratings :-)
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Phoenix1269		#3411	[-]
Posts: 2067 03/26/12 02:49 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Taterman wrote: Yeah, I agree with Blake. I think it's easy to say that, regardless of whether or not she wins, Kim has one of the best WINNER edits for a female at this point (if not for both genders... Seriously, did Marcus ever have all of Edgic except for one person having him as their top winner pick?) But having a good winner edit isn't neccesarily the same as being developed. But yeah, her edit has definitely been tended to with alot of care, regardless of whether she does win or not. Marcus had crazy numbers for consensus right from the start. E1 - Marcus 14; everyone else 3 E2 - Marcus 16; everyone else 4 E3 - Marcus 15; everyone else 7 E4 - Marcus 19, everyone else 1 E5 - Marcus 15, everyone else 2 E6 - Marcus 15; everyone else 1 E7 - Marcus 17, everyone else 1
Phoenix1269		#3412	[-]
Posts: 2067 03/26/12 02:51 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Lexxan wrote: WAIT FOR ME PHOENIX. I'll rewatch during the day and then post my ratings :-) Not to worry! I won't post until later in the evening monday (well, my monday evening lol). you've got about 19 hours from now ;)
getting real		#3413	[-]
Posts: 3063 03/26/12 02:58 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ratings Alicia - OTTNN5 Chelsea - UTR1 Christina - CPP5 Colton - OTTN5 Jay - UTR1 Jonas - CP4 Kat - OTT3 Kim - MOR3 Leif - MOR2 Michael - UTR2 Sabrina - MOR3 Tarzan - MOR3 Troyzan - MOR3 Contenders One of the most significant editing developments since Probst took on a more 'hansds-on' role has been ramming the storylines down the audience's collective throat. If something looks a kitten and mews like a kitten, chances are it won't be, say, a boa constrictor. Even in a non-obvious season such as the previous one, we were told very early why the big guns wouldn't win. All this, of course, is good for Kim's chances. This is really what the debate is about. Are they really going to make it that obvious? Really? Well, going on recent past history, I have to answer in the affirmative. I also have to add that, even if it's not Kim, the've made it obvious that the winner will be a woman. I'll try to be more expansive next week for the time-honored merge pick but, in the meantime, there are no surprises: 5 - Kim 4 - Sabrina 3 - Christina, Kat, Troyzan. Everyone else eliminated.
Phoenix1269		#3414	[-]
Posts: 2067 03/26/12 03:05 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Alicia - OTTNN5 Christina - OTTP5 Colton - OTTNN5 Greg - MORN3 Jonas - CPP4 Leif - MOR2 Chelsea - UTR1 Jay - UTR1 Kat - OTT3 Kim - MOR3 Michael - UTR1 Sabrina - MOR3 Troy - MOR3 Alicia - OTTNN5 I agree with Blake's analysis of Alicia's rating on page 167. Her edit is shallow and all about conflict with other's. Her BFF and ally gets medivac'd and all she can think of is how he screwed her over!!! really?! The NN is obvious - boy she is vile! Christina - OTTP5 Christina - I previously posted why i thought Christina was P - it has to do with how NN both Alicia and Colton were to her and her amazing ability to be kind to her bully in his hour of need (and apparently it appears was the only one to do so?) Add in Jonas' independent observation on it (i.e. that C&A are rubbing it in just to be mean), and you have a very P edit. It could almost be PP. The OTT is from the victim who want to save her own skin slant. Colton - OTTNN5 Colton was worse to Christina than he was to Bill - BY A BAZILLION MILES - The "sympathy" for his edit serves Christina's edit and shows her positivity, not anything for Colton's edit. We were meant to be GLAD that he was going… as Jonas said…. a little bit of karma heh heh (as he is being carried away). He was just awful every which way. His statement about Christina jumping in the fire to be medivaced if that was more convenient was completely horrible (and it gets repeated!!!) and was all about the irony for him. Glad he is gone! Greg - MORN3 the "i don't like you and won't be your friend" scene with Christina was weird. He respects her and thinks she'll be successful but also thinks she a sycophant? And he thinks Alicia is not? Wow! Then he talks down to Leif again. Definitely N, even if it's partly by association. He was leaning a bit OTTish - but i think that is just who he is - his edit was MORish as he described what was possibly happening with Colton and from the discussion with Leif on who to vote for. Jonas - CPP4 We really got a lot from Jonas this time and it was all very good for him. We know he doesn't agree with the meanness, he was questioning Alicia BEFORE Queen Colton was medivac'd, he is making plans for the future, we know what he is thinking and where he stands. His P comes from his position on the treatment of Christina as well as for the genuine sympathy shown for Colton as Colton leaves (and note it was highlighted by Jeff). In a season where P seems to be a rare commodity, when it does happen, even in smaller doses, i think it should be noted. Leif - MOR2 stuck in the middle again - although to his credit he sees through Alicia. Chelsea - UTR1 vanilla ice cream lol Jay - UTR1 Gluttony comment - and a TCQ i think but i have no idea what it was about! I normally don't go against the vis chart, but seriously... i recall more of Mike's edit than his! Kat - OTT3 Man she is naive and sheltered - they are totally turning her into a dumb blonde caricature! Although the dream sequence was pretty funny. (prophetic??) Kim - MOR3 I did not think this was a good episode for her at all. She had some fluff about the ice cream reward and about how her tribe was trying to figure out the challenge! lol And then a comment about bringing the idol to TC. Up to this point she was really just UTR/narrarating… her TCQ brings her up a little, and i would not argue a UTR still for her. I though she came off as a bit callous in her TCQ, and even when she finally said she was sad for Colton, it was almost an after thought. I did not like this episode for her, especially on the heels of a recap that makes her look cocky. The editors left in "I just cannot get over how this could not have gone any better for me." but took out the parts that softened the cockiness "I know it’ll have its moments, but this is not one of ‘em." Michael - UTR1 many flavours of ice cream, and knows his backyards games. Sabrina - MOR3 he's pretty low key, but gets the only good confessional at the reward (nice to get away from it all) and gets to comment on Monica leaving. Troy - MOR3 Troy gets both of the good TCQs - 1st response to Colton's medivac news and 1st response to merging. Has a good response to the news (i.e. he feels sad for Colton as Colton is such a huge fan, etc) Noticably absent from the Gluttony ice cream scene… which is actually a good thing IMO. this episode was all about Manono - they didn't even give us basic camp life with Salani, it was all trying to "guess the challenge". So weird. And what's up with the crappy harsh music and the gluttony scene for the reward. So weird. All the story and loose ends are currently with the Manono's. Even the preview next week is about former Manono's. In some ways this season reminds me a lot of Gabon... i wonder if it will be structured the same way... a large portion of one tribe - but doesn't contain the winner. the winner comes from the smaller group - makes it against the odds, etc etc.
getting real		#3415	[-]
Posts: 3063 03/26/12 03:07 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	FLF: Altruism and sainthood is OTTP in Survivor I'm afraid. Lol at Jesus being OTTP in his Sermon on the Mount! Literally as well as metaphorically.... Phoenix Marcus had crazy numbers for consensus right from the start. E1 - Marcus 14; everyone else 3 E2 - Marcus 16; everyone else 4 E3 - Marcus 15; everyone else 7 E4 - Marcus 19, everyone else 1 E5 - Marcus 15, everyone else 2 E6 - Marcus 15; everyone else 1 E7 - Marcus 17, everyone else 1 I didn't realize I was the only dissenter.. In fact, from memory, I had actually eliminated him!
Phoenix1269		#3416	[-]
Posts: 2067 03/26/12 03:18 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	fat little fingers wrote: Loyalty to your original alliance is another theme to keep an eye on. Who has turned on alliance members? Alicia - natch. Chelsea was tempted. Sabrina wanted to turn on Alicia. Jay made sure Mike wasn't part of his new alliance with Troy and Kim. Now we hear Troy calling his old Misfit Alliance goofy and goony. don't forget Kim... Kim has also turned against her original alliance.... she may have originally planned on not forming an alliance right away, but she did - and was shown to say that even though she isn't totally about girl power.... she's going with it! she was shown 2x wanting to see this girl power alliance thru, even tho Chelsea and Sabrina gave excellent arguments why they should not (ie keep Kat, and Alicia respectively) As soon as they swap, we seen Kim talking with Jay, Chelsea and Troy about their new alliance and how if any of them hear anything they need to tell the others to make sure things still go their way. Kim's playing both sides, which means she is not being true to her original alliance. You can't even count the Chelsea thing as Kim being loyal as Sabrina is the one who originally approached Kim. Alicia approached Chelsea.
Phoenix1269		#3417	[-]
Posts: 2067 03/26/12 03:23 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: Phoenix Marcus had crazy numbers for consensus right from the start. E1 - Marcus 14; everyone else 3 E2 - Marcus 16; everyone else 4 E3 - Marcus 15; everyone else 7 E4 - Marcus 19, everyone else 1 E5 - Marcus 15, everyone else 2 E6 - Marcus 15; everyone else 1 E7 - Marcus 17, everyone else 1 I didn't realize I was the only dissenter.. In fact, from memory, I had actually eliminated him! just checked the last couple of spread sheets... you had voted for Marcus as Winner1 in E6 & E7. Only Panurge consistently never voted for Marcus.
Jedijake		#3418	[-]
Posts: 7561 03/26/12 05:10 AM MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	One false move and Kim could have ALL of the doubt in the world and seem like an extremely unlikely winner. It happened to Todd in China toward the end and to Rob at times as well (although with Rob NOBODY had any development whatsoever except for Phillip). Thing is about Kim is that there ARE plenty of developed people this season. This is why this has been a great season. Even some of the stranger edits cannot be overlooked (Chelsea comes to mind). But there are also people who you'd think should have gotten much more development-Troyzan comes to mind. Dunno-it's a long road and last recap was kinda obnoxious, but I'd almost like to see Kim win strictly to see a female's journey to the end for once.
getting real		#3419	[-]
Posts: 3063 03/26/12 08:00 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Phoenix: just checked the last couple of spread sheets... you had voted for Marcus as Winner1 in E6 & E7. Only Panurge consistently never voted for Marcus. Thanks for setting me straight, Phoenix. Memory can play strange tricks, sometimes... I went back and checked because I couldn't believe old age could have had such an effect. Seems like neither of us was totally unequivocal either way, lol. This is how it went down after E7: Cassidy: So who's the one who doesn't think Marcus will win? Own up! Blake: An idiot whom should be kicked out of edgic! This is almost as horrifying as the random Amanda support at the end of S16. Getting Real: That would probably be Panurge. His 'idiot's' tale is full of sound and fury - but it might yet signify something. In fact, I'm thinking I'm almost as much an idiot as he is! Panurge: Not that I mind being called an idiot but, actually, I still put Marcus as a possible winner! Phoenix could back me up. Like I said, Corinne being the Sole Survivor is the story I'm reading behind the edit but I know I could be wrong so I'm not going to be like the Tracy and PG supporters and ram it down your throats.
fat little fingers		#3420	[-]
Posts: 7738 03/26/12 11:10 AM Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Phoenix: Kim's playing both sides, which means she is not being true to her original alliance. Kim said that she was keeping her options open until she knew what the number count was at the merge. Playing both sides, while waiting to see what the number count is at the merge, is very different from deciding to vote an alliance member out. Kim has yet to make that decision. Phoenix: You can't even count the Chelsea thing as Kim being loyal as Sabrina is the one who originally approached Kim. Alicia approached Chelsea. Ep2, Nina pushes for Kat's boot. Chelsea tells Kim that Nina is right, that Kat makes the women look like "freakin' idiots" and that she's the weakest link. Kim acknowledges all that Chelsea says, but tells her that they need the other women to trust them. Ep4 Sab makes a similar argument for eliminating Alicia. Kim questions the idea, but agrees that Christina is a good contributor around camp. Kim continues to argue for voting Christina over alliance member, Alicia. Kim tells us that Sab's trying to shake things up makes her "a little nervous". Kim tells us, "I don't know. It's gonna be an interesting afternoon." Note that Kim's character rarely speaks in absolute black and white. She weighs situations and takes a wait-and-see approach. Ep1: "I wasn't going to form an alliance right off the bat.", "Time will tell." Ep2: TC, "not my time yet." Ep4: When Sabrina asks about targeting Alicia, Kim, "What?!...I don't know..." Ep5: “This has been my thing all along. I’m trying to keep my options open. So if sticking with the girls works best for me in the long run, I’ll stick with the girls. And if we get to the merge and we don’t have the numbers, Troy and Jay are my alliance all the way.
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S-24 Edgic (Editing & Logic)