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Mypoody2 |
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HOW DARE YOU, YOU MOTHER FUCKER!!!
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Warrior |
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scepticA wrote: Very well could be. The million dollar quote of the season just may be "this is the worst decision I've ever made" and then goes on to win the million dollar$...sounds like MB.
Last Edited By: Warrior
11/07/09 8:28 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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JT4ever |
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scepticA wrote:No, it wasn't. The high point for him came just before the IC in this episode. The high point was his engineering of a Laura boot when he struck up a successful partnership with John. The plan was of course foiled when Laura won immunity. And yes, at that point, Russell becomes adrift. But between the feast and the IC, he was scrambling, working angles, striking out a couple of times, but finally connecting with a plan to oust a significant Galu player. Recognize! (and note: None of the other FoaFoas told Russell that he was safe, or he didn't believe them.Or he didn't believe what they, a defenseless minority, were told by someone in the dominant majority who had no credible reason to tell them absolutely anything about the majority's plans. Duh. He wasted his totem,He did not. He could not have known how the vote would go, and he had plenty of reasons to feel concerned. With all the crazy uncertainly flying around camp at the last minute, that was absolutely the correct move for him to make. How many people have gone home with idols in their pockets when they should have been aware of the winds of change blowing? Russell was presented with incontrovertible evidence that all kinds of crazy possibilities were being discussed. And he knew that his idol was burned and targeted. The only decision he had to make -- and he explicitly voiced this -- was whether to protect Jaison with it or whether to protect himself with it. The correct answer to that question is ridiculously obvious: when in doubt, you cover your ass. Sure, his position in the game sucks right now. But he came in as a physical threat in a minority tribe and successfully invested the one thing he had to offer -- his idol -- into an imminent boot of an enemy leader. As often happens on Survivor, fate intervened and foiled his plans: Laura won immunity. At this point, Russell did the only smart thing he could to ensure his own survival: he played a burnt idol. His own distrust of others is his downfall. If you think everyone is your inferior it's hard to trust them.This is Survivor. You trust other people to serve your own best interest ahead of theirs at your own peril. All trust in Survivor should be based on a common goal, e.g. the common target of Laura which Russell discovered he shared with John. In the exposed position Russell was in after burning his idol during the scramble that set up the Laura blindside, he couldn't afford to trust anyone to protect him nearly as well as his idol could. So he played it. An idol used when it turns out not to be needed is a hell of a lot better than an idol not used when it was needed. You might not, but I'm sure Brendan and Erik would agree with me. Now Russell has to play the game from a position of weakness. Them's the breaks. But as far as I'm concerned, he's still playing a better game than what the people who are criticizing his strategy in this episode would have probably managed in that same situation. |
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9RedWing19 |
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We need more numbers and less talk in this thread, so here goes ....
I've summarized from Warrior's charts the Average V-Factor and RussellH's V-Factor by episode, and calculated what RusselH's Visibility rating would be if there was no upper bound. What follows is episode number, Average V-Factor (=3 Visibility Rating), RussellH's V-Factor, and RussellH's Theoretical Visibility Rating 1, 20.3, 107, 15.8 2, 23.4, 94, 12.1 3, 25.5, 59, 6.9 4, 23.7, 30, 3.8 5, 21.5, 51, 7.1 6, 25.8, 51, 5.9 7, 21.2, 75, 10.6 8, 33.8, 116, 10.3 Total, 195.2, 583, 9.0 By way of comparison, Coach-S18 had 3 episodes with a Visbility of 5, Rupert-S7 had 4, and Steph-S10 had 4. So it's not fair to call RussellH a distraction since his edit is unique - nobody in the previous 18 seasons has received anywhere near this level of visibility - IMO this means that one cannot use Edgic guidelines to assess his chances of winning since the gudielines reflect "normal" editing patterns, and whatever else our beloved RussellH is, he ain't normal when it comes to his edit. And judging from the preview, we'll get to see more of Russell in the next episode. Please try to contain your excitement. |
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scepticA |
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I love the Duh. Such comments make responses seem so much more intelligent -especially when the response has nothing to do with the point of the original.
I'm still looking forward to hearing from someone who might explain away Jaison's "loser" remarks. Does he have even a somewhat "million dollar" quote? In some ways this was the first episode where we saw a take-charge strategic Jaison. Is this too late? If the game ended now, would he be a "satisfying" winner? Other redemption arcs - Kathy, Cirie #1 - dealt with them growing either in personal relationships or becoming a more rounded, capable person. It was individual growth and redemption: they left as 'better' people. Jaison's arc wouldn't follow that path. Becoming more strategic in the game doesn't necessarily translate into growth as a person. So maybe it isn't a redemption arc. Maybe it's just playing the game when you have to.
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JT4ever |
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scepticA wrote:You want my thoughts on Jaison? Easy. My skepticism about his chances of winning have less to do with all the quitter and "worst decision" talk than with the fact that his game has been shown to be essentially emotional. I didn't bother to repeat this here, because it's already been articulated by others in this thread. His reasons for booting Ben were emotional, and the most forceful argument he presented to his tribe -- note that I don't think his point that Ben hasn't been helping them win challenges was all that compelling, given that Jaison wasn't helping them win challenges either -- was to threaten to quit if he didn't get his way. The reasons the editors presented for his targeting Erik again were emotional. "I hate the guy and I'm happy going home if I stay longer than him," not very different from his Ben argument. Moreover, he showed no follow-through in targeting Erik. His plan was for them to just cast their 4 votes against Erik and then sit on their asses. This means he was more interested in the statement those 4 votes would be making than in any strategic weight they would carry. And as we've seen several times at TC, Jaison is all about standing for the right values. I look at the Jaison the editors have given me, and I see a young man who's above all interested in what he stands for, and who has shown no willingness to bend his principles in order to do what it takes to win the game. In terms of willingness to play the game by targeting people whose departure will improve your chances of winning, I rate Jaison slightly above Shambo. I'm talking about the edited Jaison, mind you. I don't know the guy, so it's entirely possible there's a lot more to him. When I look at this clip, I see someone who's very different from the guy I regularly see whinging. But then, I have to ask myself: Why the hell are the editors not showing me the guy in that clip? There you go.
Last Edited By: JT4ever
11/07/09 12:43 PM.
Edited 4 times.
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AndreSurvivor |
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Mick's showing was very poor this episode, but he got the FIRST confessional once they were merged. He had nothing before or after, but he did get that,
for whatever reason.
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BlakeB717 |
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AndreSurvivor wrote: Well he also got 2 sentences subtitled of him telling FoaFoa what the plan of action would be. He also got SPV from Russell saying he (along with Natalie and Jaison) are fulfilling their plan of action. *This also just occured to me: Erik said that Mick took it on his chin and said the numbers are what they are. Basically he said Mick doesn't panic (in comparison he said RussH scrambled, and Natalie and Jaison are worthless/do nothing), but Mick doesn't panic. Kind of ties E1 confessional regarding how you respond in the ER/being a leader. But you are right, that's all the clear visible speaking time he got in terms of confessionals, and considering where it was placed, it's probably a good thing. |
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Katy Carney |
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I understand sticking by the Mick pick, but trying to twist it like it was a great episode for Mick and his winner chances is pointless and damages your
credibility.
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guatemala fanfic |
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AndreSurvivor wrote:Yeah, this is a very good point. He got a confessional saying he was stoked when he read that they were merging. We know it helped Foa Foa. I don't think we needed anything else from him. Of course I acknowledge that getting an UTR was not the best for him, but he didn't have to be CP or be a huge presence. Try to think of the finale recap that looks back on the season. They could easily say something like, "The tribes merged and Mick kept a cool head, while Russell immediately scrambled and made deals with the former members of Galu, putting a target on his back." |
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BlakeB717 |
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Katy Carney wrote: Interesting, I don't recall saying Mick had an great episode. Pointless? Hm, you're right. It is pointless for me to look at Mick's edit. Maybe I should ignore him and just eliminate him now, and look at the edits of Natalie and Russell. Especially Natalie, you know, since people certainly aren't twisting her edit in the second episode either: "Betsy told her to look in her woman's intuition". ;) Think before you speak, know before you accuse.
Last Edited By: BlakeB717
11/07/09 2:54 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Katy Carney |
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BlakeB717 wrote: lol. ok. I never said anything about ignoring Mick or focusing on everyone but Mick. I was just pointing out how overemphasizing Mick's confessional and it's THUPER DUPER IMPORTANT TIMING and things like that make you look desperate to be "right", not to mention extremely hypocritical when you go on to sarcastically marginalize other people's opinions on minor moments like Betsy's talk with Natalie, etc. It makes you seem like you have an agenda, and when you add that to the fact that you act like a dismissive, self-serious douchebag to everyone who disagrees with you, people are less likely to listen to any valid points you may end up having. |
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BlakeB717 |
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I am just annoyed that you said I said Mick had a great episode, which I didn't. Especially when I've said the exact opposite numerous times: that
Mick's episode WASN'T great; but for his winner chances it doesn't hurt him nearly as much as everyone else is suggesting it does.
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SurvivorNinja |
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Katy Carney wrote: All of this. |
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Katy Carney |
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BlakeB717 wrote: Okay, sorry for misinterpreting your words. Based on this BlakeB717 wrote: and then your comments about his confessional I thought you were saying he was a strong contender partly because of this episode. I respect your logic and I think your Mick pick is reasonable. In general, I think that if you presented your point of view in a less hostile way it would be easier for people to see where you're coming from. |
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BlakeB717 |
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Katy Carney wrote: It's OK, misunderstandings happen. I feel very strong in my pick, but not because of this episode. This episode (based on the content, not the numbers) tells me that he's exactly where a winner should be (based on Edgic ideals). Hehe, hostile. True; but I probably wouldn't be so hostile if people didn't freak out and say I'm being "inconsistent" and "suddenly downplaying the importance of Edgic rules" when I certainly haven't. |
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Jedijake |
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Anyone find it odd that Russell even suggested that he felt they were about to merge at 12?
After never having merged with more than 10? |
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JT4ever |
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Jedijake wrote:Not if he wasn't a student of the game. If he had only seen, say, the last couple of seasons, he'd have no set expectation. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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cookie wrote:COLLEENLOVER nice. |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Jedi said
Anyone find it odd that Russell even suggested that he felt they were about to merge at 12? I've been rewatching some Vanuatu episodes and they spoke about the merge a couple episodes before it happened. I think the players are always on guard about it. I have a stupid question re: the Guatemala chart. I admit, I have a faulty memory and am lazy right now - did Brian and Margaraet get booted in the same episode? I forgot that if so. It looks that way on the chart. I remember most of the double boot eps, but not that one. I certainly remember Margaret's boot - and Judd's ADD rant. When Sarge went home, Probst watched them finish and said one person will win the million - cut to Chris. Same as it had been in the opening scene of episode 1. The editors don't do that anymore, do they? Michael PS MyPoody who are you talking to? I didn't do it! |
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