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chapera rocks wrote:

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If you're going to say Amber is lucky to have a stupid Lex (which isn't even a fact since AMBER convinced KATHY to keep her), then its ludicrous to put JT above her because his win was a result of 5 stupid people (most of whom were playing FOR him) and a member of his own tribe that wanted a Pao final 3, which was stupid for her.

panurge46 wrote:

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Actually, I never had a problem with Amber being cast for ASS. She had been under-utilized in Australia but it was evident that she gave editors exactly what they wanted: Her emotions were always apparent and that makes good TV.

Yup. Amber got the editing shaft (a) since Lis had Rodger and (b) since Amber was allied with evil bitch Jerri. The funny thing is that SEVERAL players in recent seasons have received much worse edits than Amber and Nick did in Australia.



As winner though, I feel that Amber won ASS simply because Rob fell in love with her ass.

Okay, then Tina won Australia simply because Colby had "Mother issues".



If it hadn't been ASS there is ABSOLUTELY no way that Amber could have convinced Kathy, Lex or whoever she needed to convince to stay at F10.

If it hadn't been ASS there is ABSOLUTELY no way that Amber would have been put in that ridiculously unfair situation in the first place.



If Tom and Rupert hadn't been so dumb at F5, then Romber wouldn't have made it to the end.

I agree. And EVERY single winner was aided by the stupid decisions and bad gameplay of other players.



Romber followed a simple, tired, old pagonging recipe. It worked, good for them but it wasn't impressive at all.

Really ?? Not impressive at all ?? If Lex and Kathy had made it to the F2 in the same way leading to a sure Kathy win, this friggin' board would STILL be praising them ! Pagonging is the CORRECT strategy to use, no matter how boring it is for the viewer. You're out there to win a million bucks. Richard and Tina and Ethan and Brian and Amber and Tom and Aras and Todd ALL used this strategy to win. Does that mean all of their wins are NOT IMPRESSIVE ? The Vanuatu women and New Nakum DID NOT use this pagong strategy and they ended up with the straggler winning in the end.



When Timbira voted out Brendan, it wasn't that easy to see that they had given their game away. It should have still been 5-3 Timbira but it was already 3-5. JT and Stephen played very well to convince Coach/Tyson/Debbie on one side, Brendan/Sierra on another that they were working with them while they had Erinn's vote to topple them all. That's strategy.

The Paos didn't have to do SQUAT to convince anybody of anything. Erinn was ostracized by the Timbira Five and came to JT to join up with the Paos. The two Timbira factions separately approached the Paos who did nothing but say yes. When Brendan was voted out, C/T/D thought it was 5-3 with Taj and Erinn and Sierra on the outside. C/T/D thought it was Sierra next on the chopping block. When they were betrayed by JT and Stephen, the four remaining Timbiras SHOULD have gotten together, but Erinn was in exile and the other three stupidly could not even get together themselves in order to approach Erinn.

As far as strategy is concerned, Coach lived and DIED with his ridiculous "strong to the end" strategy, despite repeated betrayals by his so-called allies. The secret Exile Alliance looked good on paper but blew up much too quickly when dumbasses Taj and Stephen turned on Brendan and Sierra much too early and for stupid reasons.


One thing that JT deserves credit for - he had a great social game. He had charm. He was nice. Everybody loved him. You know which past winner had the same characteristics ? AMBER.

"Understanding someone's psychological make-up is much more impressive than noticing a hard-on."

C'mon now. Tina understood someone's psychological make-up ? Nope. Tina should have been DUN after losing bug-eating challenge but she was part of a five-person alliance. Colby turned away from Jerri/Amber because Jerri was so annoying. He hated Keith so Tina won out in the Ogakor sub-alliance.

My "mother issues" comment was in response to your stupid "Amber's ass" comment.

Admit it, panurge. Tina and Amber played almost IDENTICAL games. Latch yourself onto a big strong challenge threat who would help you to the end. Have them so wrapped up that they would take you to the F2 no matter what. And then beat them in the end.




"Fiji and China weren't all-stars yet Michelle and Aaron found themselves in unfair situations very similar to Amber's. A bad twist, granted but a twist nevertheless."

You're missing my point. The unfair ASS twist was a last-minute insertion by Burnett designed to save his faves Kathy and Lex. Chapera earns a well-deserved 6-4 advantage heading to the F10, only to have the tribes reconstituted at 5-5 ? Yikes !




"By F5, JT had solidified his position. Romber, instead, weakened their position by voting out Tom in place of Rupert."

Really ? JT boots Coach at F5 (and he knew Coach was going, despite his vote), leaving a situation that JT basically has to win ICs right to the end ? That's called "solidifying your position" ? And it didn't matter who Romber booted at F5, one of Rob and Amber had to win the F4 IC or Romber doesn't make it to the end.




"Tina saw that pagonging needed some tweeking and she probably wouldn't have beaten Colby if all the Ogakors had made F5."

Wow. Tina foolishly agreed to voting out Jerri because Jerri was annoying everyone. Period. There's no "tweaking" here. If Nick and Rodger and Lis had brought in Amber, CTK were DUN. Hell, if ARL had targetted CTK at F6, ARL comes out on top due to the past-votes tiebreaker. Did ARL screw up ? Yep. But Amber and Rodger in the DVD commentary agreed that the ARL alliance did not play out simply due to Lis's bad gameplay. But we saw nothing of this in the episodes, probably due to Burnett wanting to protect his sweetheart's edit (to the detriment of Amber's edit).




"Tom had to navigate the dismantling of his own tribe which needed some quick thinking at F6."

Tom only made it to the F6 because Caryn sucks.




"You should realize that Stephen was also nice guy, well liked and played a good social and strategic game yet JT clobbered him."

Well-liked ? Played a good social game ? I think the 7-0 final score disagrees.




"Really? Stop talking like a fan and look at the game. JT won the respect of everyone by his actions. That was a large part of the turn-around. Until you look at the game from a neutral point of view, it's useless to comment further on Tocantin's end game."

WTF ? You're playing the "fan" card ? Is this the last vestige of losing an argument ?


JT won Tocantins because of his friendly southern CHARM (outcharm is part of Survivor, panurge, especially in this case) and because the Timbira Five made MANY stupid errors. If Coach doesn't have his stupid 'strong to the end" strategy, JT is Thailand Ken. Or Amazon Dave. Or Vanuatu Sarge.



I don't mind that JT won Tocantins, but these arguments that he's one of the greatest winners ever are B.S.