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bob2559 wrote:

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HaroldBalzaccio wrote:

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memyselfandi wrote:

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Free, clean elections barely matter? Free speech barely matters? Freedom of assembly barely matters? Freedom from political and social repression barely matters?

Damn I'm glad I'm not that cynical.

Of course the mullahs in charge are not going to willingly give up any of their power, but then neither did the racists who opposed the civil rights movement yet people protesting made a difference there.

Ahh, an idealist. How quaint.

If the mullahs decide enough is enough, they'll have the protestors shot and/or imprisoned by the Revolutionary Guard. Not water-cannoned, not attacked by dogs, not hauled off to the county pokey on disorderly conduct charges. Dead or in prison for a long, long time.

There is absolutely no comparison between Iran today and the US in any era. Iranians don't have a 1st Amendment, or a 2nd Amendment (which would come in handy right about now), or anything even resembling our Bill of Rights at all. They do have Sharia law, and a military which is willing to slaughter dissenters in support of that law. Their "elected" officials all serve a theocracy that is equally willing to order that slaughter.


It's not cynicism, it's the fucking truth.

You forgot that the mullahs learned a lesson from the military ousting the shah, they have created several well trained and well armed militia type groups that are answerable only to them. So, even should the army decide a coup was in order, it's far from a certainty that they could pull it off. More likely every officer deemed disloyal would vanish in the dead of the night along with his entire family.

I don't disagree that the Khamenei and Ahmadinejad have huge advantages with so much of the military/security apparatus under their command.

But so did the leaders of the Soviet Union and every country in the Eastern Bloc when they fell.

Ultimately the protesters are going to need the help of internal breakdowns amongst the ranks of the clerics and the military forces to give them the opportunity and indications out of Iran is that there has been some dissension in the ranks in both cases.

I don't necessarily think removing Khamenei or Ahmadinejad will happen. All I'm saying is it COULD happen and I'm glad these people are trying to make it happen just in the off chance it succeeds as there probably won't ever be a better opportunity for this to happen.

I mean Monday's rally was estimated to have 3 MILLION people marching in it by the mayor of Tehran and the population of Tehran is only 7 MILLION.

I don't think the Supreme Leader has enough forces to slaughter 3 million people.

When have I said Iran is exactly the same as the US? You keep repeating that as if Americans are the only human beings capable of wanting and striving to get more freedom.

These people are screaming "Death to the dictator!" and "My dead brother, I will get your vote back!." Clearly a lot of Iranians are ready and willing to risk their lives for their cause the same way a previous generation of Iranians did 30 years ago in deposing the Shah.

If the 70 percent of Iranians under 30 don't act now to fight back and give it their best shot, I'm guessing they will be waiting a lot longer than 15 years for freedom.