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I appreciate all the posts concerning the allegories to the biblical stories and other religious mythologies...certainly Lost prides itself on exploring all facets of these things. Its obvious.

However, i am concerned that many people here are almost resigned to the fact that Jacob and Anti-J are actual angels, archangels, spirits, etc...

I seriously doubt this.

I think Lost is just using such mythologies and religious tones to represent how it would seem...but not how it is. It could be the Garden of Eden, and Anti-Jacob could seem like Satan, but its not anywhere near how it was like in the Bible.

I think, and im pretty sure, Jacob and Anti-Jacob are men. Plain old men. They seem way too modern. They speak English in a show that isnt shy about using subtitles. If it turns out they are ancient spirits or angels or whetever...its a huge cheat the way they are being represented.

I know, i know...in the Stand, the personification of evil "The Walking Dude"..is represented by a ultra modern man, changing-with-the-times as he walks through history causing trouble kind of guy...but in Lost, the island is timeless. So Jacob doesnt need to seem incredibly modern or speak English with Anti-Jacob (or vice versa). So, i find it hard to believe those characters are being presented as such just so the average viewer could understand them...

Yes they are ageless, yes Jacob seems to have abilities...but thats the island, not them. We've seen many humans in this show have special abilities and have miraculous things happen to them. I think Jacob and Anti-J are no different. They've just found a way to utilize the island far better than anyone else (What Ben and Widmore would like to be a part of, it seems). In fact, i wouldnt be surprised if Ben and Widmore's ultimate desire is to replace Jacob and Anti-Jacob and have their go, and see what they can try and accomplish.

But, i will seriously be surprised if we find out the two guys from the beginning of this episode werent always just men, stuck in a loop with the power of the island around them.

Lost loves to, more than anything, pull the curtain back from what we think is all powerful GOD..and its just an ordinary man, with very human issues, pulling the strings.

Thanks : )

I wanted to address one more thing, i forgot...about people complaining that Widmore is no longer a major player and that the show wimped out on the portrayal of Ben...a pathetic end to his once delicious character arc.

I dont understand the complaint.

I think Ben and Widmore still have huge roles to play in the final season. I think they will represent Jacob and Anti-J more than actual Jacob and Anti-J will...if that makes any sense :P

Watching the opening scene with Jacob and Anti-J, i thought geez...its pretty much the same conversation Ben and Widmore had when they confronted each other off the island. Widmore knows how much Ben wants to kill him...Ben expresses as much...both know its impossible for Ben to kill him though...its against the rules...Ben talks about getting around the rules...Widmore suggests his power over the island is timeless and has always been, and he'll get it back.

And heck, the Black Rock is in the background in both scenes even! And the episode is called "the shape of things to come" as if all this was a harbinger for the final Act of the show.

At first i thought, maybe TPTB originally wanted Ben and Widmore to represent what Jacob and Anti-J are representing now...thats why they supplanted a very similar conversation a couple of seasons later, gave up on making it about Widmore and Ben, and moved on to bigger, more supernatural fish. Makes a more bigger point, no?

Then i realized, no...they didnt replace Ben and Widmore's confrontation with Jacob and Anti-J's struggle...its all the same war. They all follow the same rules of engagement. They are playing on the same battlefield and at one time, had very similar goals. Its all connected.

We have not seen the full history of Widmore's place on the island. Purposefully so. We have not see what happened with Ben after the Purge...purposefully so. We have no idea what exactly "the island" did to young Ben in the temple to save his life..or what it means to "lose his innocence". Which means learning more about Widmore and Ben is a huge part of the puzzle. In no way are they done yet.

FeliciaM7 wrote:

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Like the secret scene with Jack and Walt? Not sure why they'd need that now that we've seen big ass Walt.

Well, if the show loops back...it certainly would help to have a younger Walt! :P

And yea Wisc, i was addressing the comments after yours, rather than assume what footage you were referring to :) I trust you when you say its bogus stuff, im sure it is.

I say, Richard, like the Others...think all the special abilities come from Jacob. Richard seems pretty out of the loop to most of the stuff on the island, dont you think?

I think Jacob and Anti-Jacob understand how to utilize the island more than anyone (what Widmore and Ben want to do!) but like Ben and Widmore, mr black and mr white are just guys.

Seeing as Richard is a seemingly clueless, yet ardent follower...id have to assume richard came to the island at some point, Jacob helped him just enough to be not get older, and to help find a person to lead the people who end up on the island (hoping for a change, in Jacob's eyes)

But in the same way Locke can stand up and walk on the island, Jacob (and later Richard) can be ageless. But we all agree Locke is a normal man, despite is miracles, no?

Do you think Jacob made Locke stand up and walk after the crash, or was it the island?