Family Final Four

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Phoenix1269		#1141	[-]
Posts: 673 (05/17/09 11:33 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	yah know, LadyV... i don't think i have ever told you this, but i think this is one of the single most brilliant observations regarding human behaviour within a microcosm like Survivor that i have ever had the privledge of reading/seeing/participating in. I love this thread!
Lady V		#1142	[-]
Posts: 728 (05/18/09 12:06 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Thank you, Phoenix! ~:) I am glad we have all kind of found a FF4 home here. ;)
fat little fingers		#1143	[-]
Posts: 6213 (05/18/09 8:51 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	A great FF4 season. Interesting that a F/M/S trio entered the merge as the minority and took control. Shows again how strong Families make successful Survivor teams. Here's to next season!
tmtomhJanet		#1144	[-]
Posts: 286 (05/20/09 3:54 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Great observation flf. The strong family sticks together and wins while the dysfunctional one self-destructs even with a huge majority. I'm still surprised no one ever discussed getting rid of the guy everybody liked. JT's end-game immunity run made it irrelevant but it still seems odd.
Lady V		#1145	[-]
Posts: 729 (05/20/09 7:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	tmtomhJanet wrote: I'm still surprised no one ever discussed getting rid of the guy everybody liked. JT's end-game immunity run made it irrelevant but it still seems odd. :) Well... He's the father, and that's why dad wins most of the time. ;)
fat little fingers		#1146	[-]
Posts: 6218 (05/23/09 11:33 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	JT pointed out at the last vote that he worked really hard to provide for everyone every day. It's a big factor. People don't like being hungry.
Lady V	NEW SEASON!!!!!	#1147	[-]
Posts: 730 (09/20/09 12:16 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hey, everybody! It's late, but I wanted to drop in and say I'll be posting more tomorrow about the premiere. I hope everyone's summer was lovely, and here's to a new season! :)
birdlady		#1148	[-]
Posts: 2808 (09/20/09 6:59 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	lol Worst. F. Evah.
Kitty Pryde1		#1149	[-]
Posts: 10622 (09/20/09 7:04 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Foa Foa: F - Russell H. M - Betsy S - Ben, Jaison, Mick D - Ashley, Natalie, Marisa, Liz E - Mike Galu: F - Russell S. M - Laura? S - Erik, John, Brett D - Monica, Kelly, Yasmin E - Dave?, Shambo
Lady V		#1150	[-]
Posts: 731 (09/20/09 5:34 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Birdlady: uh oh... ;) KittyPryde: wow! You did well! I am having a hard time categorizing many of these people (I don't even know that I have them all). FOA FOA F = Erik, Mick M = maybe Betsy M/E, Marisa, Liz E = maybe Mike, Russell (the sexist/racist/sociopathicish oil baron--is that Russell?), Ben S = Jaison (maybe F) D = Ashley, Natalie GALU F = Russell ("He made us so proud," said Russell, in true F fashion, but then, the first thing he ever said was, "I'm scared.") M = no idea, maybe Shambo M/E, although she seems more F to me right now E = ? S = John, Erik D = Yasmin I am missing Laura, Brett, Monica, Kelly, and Dave--don't know who they are, either) Strongest FF4 character for me so far is Galu's Russell. I have very little confidence in my other ratings. Last Edited By: Lady V 09/20/09 5:44 PM. Edited 2 times.
birdlady		#1151	[-]
Posts: 2813 (09/20/09 9:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yeah, I don't feel like we saw enough personal interactions to have any idea. An awful lot of the confessionals were people talking about themselves. Especially right off the bat in the game, the way they are picturing themselves may not be very close to the way other people are relating to them. Honestly, I don't think we really know that Hateful Russell is in an F or E role. Editing certainly showed us the entire tribe revolving around Russell, but most of that was really his own sound and fury, not really fatherly activites with other family members. They may have all already decided he's nutso but useful for his freakish strength. Vs Sweet Russell, who we heard thinking carefully about his responsibilities, and who we saw working himself on shelter, as well as supporting and encouraging the kids. Betsy M John wants to be F but bad at it Shambo views herself as E, but the tribe wants her as M. I think that should be ok for a while, until things get really stressed or they merge and Betsy is still around. Liz D but hates it wants to leave the house Everyone else, who knows, Let's call them a pack of puppies, er, children
Lady V	What is FF4?	#1152	[-]
Posts: 732 (09/21/09 12:24 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Once again, for all you newcomers, here is a repost of what we are doing here at Family Final 4! (from 2004) I find it fascinating how, in each season, little family configurations seem to ally and hold tight, and how the members of each 'family' end up in the F4. Almost all of us grew up in families of some kind--mother (M), father (F), kids (S,D=son, daughter), maybe an eccentric uncle/grandparent type (E) in the mix. Under stressful conditions, people naturally reproduce a time in their lives when they felt safest. All of us can be mothers, fathers, weird people, kids, yet we typically feel more comfortable in one of these roles more than others when we find ourselves in social groups. So it goes for the survivors, also. Some of them we've even named for their role (e.g., "Mama Kim"). Those of us who are psychologically minded sense that there are all kinds of dynamics that play out between siblings, between children and their parents, and between parents and their 'weird' relations. I've had fun watching these patterns get re-enacted on Survivor, season after season. I went back and looked at the F4 for all the seasons, put a * by who won and a - by 2nd place, and classified their editing as one of these four family characters. These are ordered within F4 by likeability as rated by Kirblar in the 'Overdogs, Underdogs..' thread who noted that the most liked player rarely wins (top=most likable to bottom=least). Final 4s: S1: Rudy: E Rich: F* Kelly: D- Sue: M ...so Rudy was most likeable, he was an eccentric, Rich won as 2nd most likeable and was edited as a complex, negative father, Kelly came in 2nd as a daughter, and so on... Historical FF4 finishes, regardless of likeability (1st letter was the winner, second came in second, etc.): S1: F,D,M,E S2: M,S,F,D S3: S,M,F,E S4: M,D,M,F S5: F,S,M,E S6: D,E,S,F S7: M,E,S,D S8: D,S,M,F S9: F,E,M,D S10: F,D,S,D S11: D,D,S,M * (F voted out F7) S12: S,D,F,M S13: S,E,D,M * (F voted out F7) S14: F,M/S,E (only an F3, so hard to tell who was 2nd and who 3rd) S15: S,D,D/E,M *(F3 season again) S16: D, D, M, D S17: F, M, D, S (F3 season) S18: F, S, D, M We develop our ratings individually and by consensus, and usually have them firmed up by the 3rd episode, when we typically start predicting F6. The hypotheses and results from all 18 seasons follow in the next post. (This thread was destroyed as part of the big attack years back, but I had saved many of the crucial posts from earlier seasons and reposted them.)
Lady V	FF4 hypotheses	#1153	[-]
Posts: 733 (09/21/09 12:32 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	~~~ REPOST OF FF4 HYPOTHESES ~~~ 1) The F6 will contain an E, an F, an M, and some kids. (It has 14 of 18 seasons) 2) F4 will not contain two people with the same role. (It has not 13 of 18) 3) There will not be 2 Fs or 2Ms in the F6 (There has not been in 16 of 18). (In the odd situation where there are two Ms or two Fs, one will be a failed M or F.) 4) The F2 will not be two dads nor two moms. (The F2 has never been two dads nor two moms.) 5) The F2 generally will not be two kids. (The F2 have been two kids only 5 of 18) However, in the rare case the F2 is two kids, at least one will be an "unusual" child with strong "adult" (leader) tendencies. 6) The winner will not be E. (The winner has never been an E.) 7) If a parent is in the F2 with a non-parent, the parent will win. (7 times parent-nonparent has been in F2; 6 times the parent has won) **AND TWO NON-FF4 HYPOTHESES, BUT NONETHELESS, INTERESTING:** * At F4, the second most likeable has the best chance; the least likeable can't win (Kirblar's observation). * The most popular person going into the F3 has NEVER WON the Final IC (Craig's observation).
Olmec Donald		#1154	[-]
Posts: 780 (09/21/09 3:11 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Russell is an E, no doubt. What Fatherly qualities did he show in the entire episode? He sabotaged his family's water supply! He burned the son's socks! He didn't reassure the daughter, he shafted her! For me, there's no question that he's not a Father. Betsy is definitely the Mother; the scene immediately before tribal where she tells her daughter Natalie not to trust the evil fat man seals it. Mike is also clearly the Eccentric old man, using outdated terms like 'Afro-American' - look for him or Russell to be gone soon, a family can't carry two Es. Mick seems stuck in the middle - son who was prematurely thrust into a leadership role. He needs to pick one or the other or he'll be gone before the F4. Ben seems to be an S with dreams of becoming the F ('not surprised I didn't receive a vote for leader, but I'll show them') but since he's connected with Evil Russell it doesn't look like happening. Jaison looks like an S, he hasn't shown any leadership qualities yet. On Galu, Shambo has me in two minds between M and E. She berated the son (John) for not listening to his Father, but left herself out of the group bonding session, which is E behaviour. It'll be interesting to see which side she ends up on. The rest of the tribe that got airtime were pretty clear-cut.
birdlady		#1155	[-]
Posts: 2814 (09/21/09 7:12 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm not convinced that being older automatically makes you E (or that being young automatically makes you an S or a D). I think Mike might be a really old S, but we just didn't see enough tribe interactions to tell. (Or, in his pregame he talked about using his chef skills to make people keep him around, which would look a lot like M behaviour.) The purple tribe must of been swimming in their underwear, right? And the middle-aged lumpy-looking lady didn't feel comfortable doing that? Sitting on the beach like that seems very older mom-like to me. Probably cut the part where she told them to wear sunscreen. She was staying with the group, not refusing to swim because she had something better to do.
mahdoo		#1156	[-]
Posts: 384 (09/21/09 12:44 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Olmec Donald wrote: Russell is an E, no doubt. He could be what the guidelines describe as a "failed father" but I agree a different father will emerge for Foa Foa.
GoHomeAndEatYoRice		#1157	[-]
Posts: 1633 (09/21/09 7:14 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I read this thread a lot during Gabon and Tocantins, just never tried it. But, I am going to try it. <3 FOA FOA F = Mick, M = Betsy, Liz E = Mike, Russell (Too abusive as a F, and kind kind of there.) S = Jaison, Ben (Kind of rebellious.) D = Ashley, Natalie, Marisa GALU F = Russell (Kind F) M = Shambo, Laura (From the little we saw in the Insiders) E = Dave (Negative to the S(John)) S = John, Erik, Brett D = Yasmin, Monica, Kelly
Lady V		#1158	[-]
Posts: 734 (09/21/09 11:27 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hey there, Olmec Donald! And welcome to mahdoo and GoHomeAndEatYoRice! FF4 speculation is always encouraged! You all are doing so more clearly than I am so far this season. I believe I'm going to wait to post pooled ratings until after the 2nd ep, although it looks like we already have some agreement on Fs, Ms, and Es, which is great so early on. This Thursday, I'm probably going to be watching mostly for clearer M signs on both tribes, and for F on Foa Foa. Russell S (sweet Russell, as birdlady put it!) seems to be the clear F on Gabu, which is interesting in and of itself, and Russell H (hateful Russell, thanks to birdlady again!) looks to be the season's E so far. (He reminds me of a darker Johnny Fairplay.)
Olmec Donald		#1159	[-]
Posts: 784 (09/22/09 3:09 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hey Lady V. Was JFP an S or an E?
birdlady		#1160	[-]
Posts: 2822 (09/22/09 1:25 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	sweet Russell, as birdlady put it! Not me, mahdoo made a nice picture for MESS

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