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S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins

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chaperone		#4721	[-]
Posts: 2665 (05/13/09 12:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	unduli clone wrote: fat little fingers wrote: Marcus had no doubt, no fears, no musings about how he'd get to the end. I know we love to dogpile on Marcus now that the season is over and he lost, but the episode with that first tribal switch still showcased him as a classic winner, with the right insight into the swap and a perfect amount of doubt and fear on how it would go down. That was the ep he got voted out, right?
AndreSurvivor		#4722	[-]
Posts: 552 (05/13/09 12:15 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chaperone wrote: unduli clone wrote: fat little fingers wrote: Marcus had no doubt, no fears, no musings about how he'd get to the end. I know we love to dogpile on Marcus now that the season is over and he lost, but the episode with that first tribal switch still showcased him as a classic winner, with the right insight into the swap and a perfect amount of doubt and fear on how it would go down. That was the ep he got voted out, right? He was voted out after switch #2.
chaperone		#4723	[-]
Posts: 2666 (05/13/09 12:16 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ok thanks for the clarification AS
fat little fingers		#4724	[-]
Posts: 6185 (05/13/09 2:22 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	unduli wrote: "...I know we love to dogpile on Marcus now that the season is over and he lost, but the episode with that first tribal switch still showcased him as a classic winner,.." Well, I had some alarm bells go off at that time. But, they eventually suckered me in anyway. From my first ratings post for Gabon: (My colored highlights are from today.) page 17 post:5600 09/27/08 Marcus CP3 Marcus looks like gold doesn't he? But there are signs of real problems for his edit. Charley never lets us forget what a wonder boy Marcus is: Charley, "...he's smart, he's funny, he's athletic. He's the whole package!" He has his "Here we go!" opening. He's afraid of the wild animals in the jungle and is glad for the shelter. He tells us that you could walk around a corner and be eaten. Hm. Then we have the onion analogy. For Marcus, he tells Charley, it's all an onion, with him at the center and all these outer layers of lesser alliance members. Marcus better remember that he's not the only alliance member who wants and plans to be the center of that onion. Still he's my #2 winner pick at this point. But Corinne was my first pick, Lol. There was something fishy in Marcus' "perfect" edit. Warrior complains (in red) in his first ratings post, "Could they have made it more obvious that Marcus wins??? " We knew it was too pat an edit, but we bought it, mainly because the others sucked so bad or, like Bob, were almost non-existent. Sound familiar? We had the same frustration with Guatemala, except then nobody was fitting Edgic guidelines well enough for us to have much confidence.
chapera rocks		#4725	[-]
Posts: 11038 (05/13/09 4:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't see how Gary or Rafe weren't legitimate edgic picks.
cindidindi76		#4726	[-]
Posts: 17867 (05/13/09 4:49 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think Rafe had an INV (an iffy one, imo, especially considering some later non-INV ratings).
colleenlover		#4727	[-]
Posts: 9280 (05/13/09 6:05 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Rafe had the invisible and a low-key premerge. I know though that I finally got with the program by reviewing the first episode in like the second to last episode and noted that Danni and Rafe had some kind of manipulation when Probst introduced Steph to the cast. And I think Gary WAS a edgic pic for many. i think he was for me. I think it was gary and Steph for me predominantly.
Kitty Pryde1		#4728	[-]
Posts: 9497 (05/13/09 6:13 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Just noticed something...but would it be a stretch to say that the CPP rating is the absolute best rating a winner can get. I mean, going through the season, every winner, save for Todd/Jenna got a CPP prior to the finale, and barring a Coach win, the streak will hold true this season. I don't even really know what point I'm trying to make, but even N forces like Richard and Brian got an early CPP.
fat little fingers		#4729	[-]
Posts: 6186 (05/13/09 6:43 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	During Guatemala, I remember cl as the first person to come up with the idea that the season was about why Stepha-me loses, rather than about the winner's story. Gary was one of the the steadier choices we had and a number of us were down to him after the merge. But, like Gabon after the Marcus fiasco, we were grasping at the nearest straw all season. And Gary was becoming repetitive and all strategy by the merge, which didn't make him all that strong a choice. We just had so little to work with. but would it be a stretch to say that the CPP rating is the absolute best rating a winner can get. I think it's always a mistake to try and isolate individual parts of the Edgic grab bag. But, I'd agree that the winner edit should try and make the winner worthy and that could be summed up in CPP one episode. I don't think there's any reason for the winner to ever need to get a P edit. Straight game is fine. I think even an overall N would be okay if there are reasons to say the win was justified.
wallduck		#4730	[-]
Posts: 538 (05/13/09 7:15 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chap: Sure there was a classic winner's edit last season, Marcus did. That's why a "winner's edit" is a fallacy. People hated Marcus as a front-runner. I say one big reason was how bland his character was. And that blandness was a clue as to why he didn't fit the Edgic winner expectations. Marcus had no doubt, no fears, no musings about how he'd get to the end. Correct. The comparisons of Stephen to Marcus are 100% BS.
wallduck		#4731	[-]
Posts: 539 (05/13/09 7:33 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't see how Gary or Rafe weren't legitimate edgic picks. This is an interesting topic. Certainly neither one was "eliminated by edgic." And yet neither one had much meaningful editing. Meaningful editing is really the primary edgic standard. It results in us feeling like we know (and therefore likely care about) a character. A player can get a bunch of CP weekly-ratings and still be weak in the meaningful editing category. Gary is a great example. So is Marcus. I think the absence of a character with significant meaningful editing is the sign of a non-CP winner like Danni or Bob. That's why I'm not concerned about Stephen, who has received boatloads of meaningful editing, losing to a UTR like Erinn or an OTTP like Taj. In the same vein, I think it's what puts Stephen edgically head and shoulders above JT.
fat little fingers		#4732	[-]
Posts: 6187 (05/13/09 8:05 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I totally agree with wallduck. ..... ... oh, sorry .... X
chaperone		#4733	[-]
Posts: 2667 (05/13/09 11:16 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I do feel like Rafe had an episode that was a hotly debated INV - am I remembering that right? Of course...so did Yul later.
scepticA		#4734	[-]
Posts: 1639 (05/13/09 11:29 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Rafe's INV was totally INV. From what I recall of that season there was a general sense of frustration in edgic because nobody seemed like a great fit. Everyone left from about F5 onward had holes in their edgic ratings, and a lot of us glommed onto the whole "maybe this season is why Steph lost" meme. I don't even recall my winner pick after Gary and Brandon left, but know for sure it wasn't Danni.
getting real		#4735	[-]
Posts: 1741 (05/14/09 1:36 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Regardless of traditional edgic analysis, there is no escaping that Danni had a ton of manipulation from Day 1 and that this fact ought to have been respected. I certainly didn't mind the very generous odds offered about her winning! Last Edited By: getting real 05/14/09 4:04 AM. Edited 1 times.
Warrior		#4736	[-]
Posts: 2898 (05/14/09 9:28 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite
chaperone		#4737	[-]
Posts: 2668 (05/14/09 10:22 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm laughing at Stephene on that chart - has there ever been a player on the non-TC tribe who had the highest visibility factor of the entire episode? Gosh that was bad twist. I'm still bitter Gary didn't win.
cindidindi76		#4738	[-]
Posts: 17926 (05/14/09 3:29 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Rafe's INV was totally INV. I completely disagree, unless his INV isn't the episode I thought it was. And if we compare to other seasons (which is never the best idea), he was more visible than Yul was in his debated INV episode, and at the very least as visible as (more visible than, imo) Kenny was in his. Not that it really matters now, lol, but there's no harm in talking about other stuff when waiting for a new episode to air, right? See what happens when there aren't any close calls?
9RedWing19		#4739	[-]
Posts: 2547 (05/14/09 3:30 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chaperone wrote: I'm laughing at Stephene on that chart - has there ever been a player on the non-TC tribe who had the highest visibility factor of the entire episode? Rupert - Ep 2 of S7 (per the revised chart). There may be others, but I'm too lazy to wade through all the charts ... Edited to add: sorrry, Rupert and Andrew were both 5's (but in the S11 episode, Brian, Blake and Steph were all 4's). Last Edited By: 9RedWing19 05/14/09 3:32 PM. Edited 1 times.
getting real		#4740	[-]
Posts: 1742 (05/14/09 5:45 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Penultimate episode, everyone. I presume Only the Hunter will be watching somewhere, nervously willing Stephen on to have a real stinker of an episode tonight. Me too.

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