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S-18 Edgic (editing and logic) - Tocantins

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ColonelBird		#4461	[-]
Posts: 951 (05/08/09 9:12 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Erin was all over the mini-opening, the section before Stephen says 'final 6, everyone, congratulations'.... It seemed, too much so.... It just struck me as odd.
crzypunk2004		#4462	[-]
Posts: 4530 (05/08/09 9:14 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think it was to explain why Coach was mad at Erinn/Taj and the 2 stray votes last episode, I don't think it was anything other than that.
Warrior		#4463	[-]
Posts: 2895 (05/08/09 9:18 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: Warrior, Erinn's confessionals was just one example this past episode - Taj got more than one "confessional" as well. "We decided long ago that counting confessionals this way is the best way to measure visibility rather than using the 10 second rule." When did this happen ? I thought that the editing trend of untitled confessionals only started this season or last season. Untitled confessionals have been around for as long as I can remember...they were there when we started the Visibility Factor...
9RedWing19		#4464	[-]
Posts: 2541 (05/08/09 9:30 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: There has been no talk of JT or Stephen turning on each other.......why? Maybe, because it doesn't happen............. There still should be some doubt being thrown into the edit - heck, even Romber got some doubt in ASS. RW, Erinn is still viable edgically so please stop with the snarkiness towards any attempt at explaining her possible winn. Stephen may have a really good edgic edit, but so did Marcus. You're commenting on other posters being snarky?? I don't agree that Erinn is edgically viable (and I haven't felt that way since before the merge). If she wins, you and the other Shamrocks will have immense bragging rights, and I will duly mea culpa.
fat little fingers		#4465	[-]
Posts: 6164 (05/08/09 9:57 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I know FLF used to think the EA was cool I never thought the EA was cool. I never thought the EA would hold together either. The most useful thing in the EA was the announcement of Stephen out of the blue. That's when I sat up and said, "Oh yeah..!" And when Sierra joined Taj and Brendan in telling us that the EA was gonna rule the game, Sierra was permanently off my winner board. And Stephen took the sole top position. That's what the EA was for me.
scepticA		#4466	[-]
Posts: 1618 (05/08/09 10:27 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You have to remember - Stephen was the sole EA inhabitant who expressed worry over it. Although the fact that Taj Stephen and JT are where they are was due to Taj bringing Stephen in on the EA (he just "stumbled" into it), and Stephen then brought JT into an alternate alliance coupled to Taj and indirectly the EA. And the only way I see Erinn as Edgically viable if she's a Danni/Bob-type winner. Considering that those are seasons in which edgic failed, it's interesting that the way she's viable edgiically is if edgic fails. Not exactly a big positive there towards edgic. Or Erinn, for that matter. Hey, if Erinn woke up and approached Coach and Taj and said the only way any of them is winning is to get rid of Stephen/JT, and then two (or three) of us are in the finale, then I'd be amazingly impressed if they agreed. More to the point I'd be astonished, because I can't imagine either Taj or Coach revolting. Taj is still tight with them, and we've never seen anything to dispute that, and coach would be shown to be both pathetic and a hypocrite to go against his whole warrior schtick. But damn, that would be cool. Was there ever a statement about exactly when a HII had to be used? In seasons past it was always F4 or F5. I don't recall a mention of that this season, but admit that I could have missed it. Anyone remember?
craig		#4467	[-]
Posts: 15611 (05/08/09 11:07 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Why can't Erinn's moral victory be in making F2? And what does this potential moral victory have to do with Edgic? Because it's pretty obvious that Stephen wins, and we have to have something more to talk about (like how it happens, who he faces). Other people are speculuating JT or Taj as F2 based on editing, so why can't I rebut them? I also believe that in F2 seasons, the F2 loser is edited with some of the same craft and characteristics as the winner.
getting real		#4468	[-]
Posts: 1720 (05/08/09 11:12 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Although the fact that Taj Stephen and JT are where they are was due to Taj bringing Stephen in on the EA (he just "stumbled" into it) And the reason why that came about was (apparently) because Stephen comforted Taj in her hour of emotional need. We have also been shown his compassion towards Erinn when he gave her the red jumper. Contrast this portrayal with JT's. For all the high regard we keep hearing that JT is held in, we have seen no actual evidence of JT actually doing anything to earn that social approbation. Instead, we have been getting plenty of hints that people should not be trusting him. I think the payoff may be a fairly spectacular loss of face for him. It could be that, the Exile Alliance, having been focused upon at least as much as the Onion Alliance, may ultimately have the same purpose: to deliver its votes, en masse, to Stephen. Stephen the winner, not Stephen the martyr.
I LUV TIJUANA		#4469	[-]
Posts: 12808 (05/08/09 11:20 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Regarding the untitled confessionals debate... I'm not sure what to think. The thing is that Erinn's three confessionals (which were undoubtedly separated by more than 10 seconds) counting as one compared to someone who had only one would not accurately reflect the visibilities. Maybe some way of calculating the number of sentences in confessionals would help us to figure it a better way to do it?
Oowatanite		#4470	[-]
Posts: 7550 (05/08/09 11:21 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Warrior wrote: Oowatanite wrote: Warrior, Erinn's confessionals was just one example this past episode - Taj got more than one "confessional" as well. "We decided long ago that counting confessionals this way is the best way to measure visibility rather than using the 10 second rule." When did this happen ? I thought that the editing trend of untitled confessionals only started this season or last season. Untitled confessionals have been around for as long as I can remember...they were there when we started the Visibility Factor... I guess I mean the 10 second rule. A player starts a subtitled confessional about the challenge, the scene switches to show other player(s) briefly and then returns to the confessional player (untitled). One or two confessionals ? In recent seasons, we've seen single confessionals with NO subtitles which are not tied to previous confessionals. For example, Debbie. Even if it was untitled, I think they should still be credited with one "confessional", even if it's only two sentences long. Just a thought.
Oowatanite		#4471	[-]
Posts: 7551 (05/08/09 11:30 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	9RedWing19 wrote: Oowatanite wrote: There has been no talk of JT or Stephen turning on each other.......why? Maybe, because it doesn't happen............. There still should be some doubt being thrown into the edit - heck, even Romber got some doubt in ASS. RW, Erinn is still viable edgically so please stop with the snarkiness towards any attempt at explaining her possible winn. Stephen may have a really good edgic edit, but so did Marcus. You're commenting on other posters being snarky?? Yup. And I get called on it too. I don't think that JT wins edgically, but I don't go around dismissing his backers' beliefs as simply "fandom". That's what SwineFlu and RVS and the other drive-by trolls do. And the "Shamrocks" was just a fun offshoot *which you also contributed to way back when*.
wallduck		#4472	[-]
Posts: 535 (05/08/09 11:31 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Though I'm never confident about using edgic to name the runner-up, I think Stephen/Taj makes more sense than Stephen/JT.... JT's and Stephen's edits to date have suggested to us that: If JT wins immunity at F3 he will take Stephen to F2, in the name of brotherhood and sportsmanship. If Stephen wins immunity at F3 he will not take JT to F2, in the name of looking-out-for-number-one and gamesmanship. The overemphasis on JT and Stephen going all the way together is too much, and suggests something is going to upset that applecart. That means #2 above is more likely than #1, and it's Stephen and someone else. I suppose that the someone could be Erinn, but we've seen nothing to make us believe that Erinn would be a match for Stephen, making a Stephen-win anticlimactic. But Taj has been shown as popular and loved, and it would seem to the viewer that she would have a chance of beating Stephen.
Oowatanite		#4473	[-]
Posts: 7552 (05/08/09 11:48 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	scepticA wrote: And the only way I see Erinn as Edgically viable if she's a Danni/Bob-type winner. Considering that those are seasons in which edgic failed, it's interesting that the way she's viable edgiically is if edgic fails. Not exactly a big positive there towards edgic. Or Erinn, for that matter. Erinn's edit is more manipulated than Bob's edit and Danni's edit. If Erinn wins, she will not have received a great winner's edit like Earl and Yul and Todd and Tom. Why ? Because she's female and because she's not involved in the big stories of the season - the cross-tribal alliance, the self-immolation of the Timbira Five, the OTTN craziness of Coachebag, ....... The female winner edits are not as upfront and out-there like the male winner edits, partly because of gender bias with the editing and partly because the female winners tend to get to the end in a more subtle/UTR manner than the male winners.
fat little fingers		#4474	[-]
Posts: 6165 (05/08/09 12:01 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Stephen's edit has been all about "reasoning". Any complaint or dispute that will be thrown his way at final TC will be calmly and rationally explained. This is what his edit has done every week with every single move he's made. He's been confrontation-free the entire season. Yet, he's also been shown to be "afraid", "nervous", and "freaked out" the entire season as well. Some have posted the argument that Stephen's been the mere follower of JT. This has never been the case. What he has always done is tell us in private his thinking and plans, but in the social setting, he's let Brendan, Taj, and since the merge, JT do all the promising and negotiating. The biggest drama is going to be his blindside of JT. (At least I hope it is.) JT told us he hates to lose and in the same episode he told Stephen that he'd get a "30-30 Winchester" and show those who hurt him just how it feels. That should make for a pretty emotional final jury question. (At least I hope it happens. It would be the culmination of an incredibly close pair bond edit. Maybe the best of any season. Romber isn't even close, except for one post-merge scene.)
Katy Carney		#4475	[-]
Posts: 5944 (05/08/09 12:09 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oowatanite wrote: Erinn's edit is more manipulated than Bob's edit and Danni's edit. If Erinn wins, she will not have received a great winner's edit like Earl and Yul and Todd and Tom. Why ? Because she's female and because she's not involved in the big stories of the season - the cross-tribal alliance, the self-immolation of the Timbira Five, the OTTN craziness of Coachebag, ....... The female winner edits are not as upfront and out-there like the male winner edits, partly because of gender bias with the editing and partly because the female winners tend to get to the end in a more subtle/UTR manner than the male winners. I agree, pretty much. I just ask myself: "How would Erinn be edited if she WERE the winner?" Probably...a lot like this. Of course Stephen seems like the obvious choice, still, but he could easily be a Cirie or a Rafe. It's hard to say.
fat little fingers		#4476	[-]
Posts: 6166 (05/08/09 12:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If Erinn wins, she will not have received a great winner's edit like Earl and Yul and Todd and Tom. Why ? Because she's female and because she's not involved in the big stories of the season While I agree that female winner edits are often very underplayed, that's not the reason I ruled Erinn out early. It was (and continues to be) the content of her confessionals. They (she) never spoke to the win, except to say she was out of her element and was ambivalent about socializing because she was still mentally and emotionally working out a recent failed relationship. Erinn's story was never about winning the game. Her story now is her triumph over her difficult living conditions and her ability to make it so long. But, that's where it stops. She never goes on to talk about that next step: the win.
McPhever224		#4477	[-]
Posts: 250 (05/08/09 1:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Honestly, how are people not giving Taj a PP?! Everyone gave her their money, and Erinn and Debbie were crying for her. For just the auction scene alone she deserves a PP.
crzypunk2004		#4478	[-]
Posts: 4532 (05/08/09 1:29 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I agree I rewatched it and Taj definately deserves a PP, all of her Positive comments from her husband who received 3 confessionals plus with everyone giving her the reward money just to see a video of her husband, and add to the fact that she lets everyone see their family members.
astroline		#4479	[-]
Posts: 2151 (05/08/09 1:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FLF is right. Erinn has had a great story all along, but it's always been about her personal experience and her journey. Not how she's gonna win. I just watched the episode, here are my ratings. FORZA Coach - MORN3 Debbie - CPP4 Erinn - CPP2 J.T. - MOR4 Stephen - CPP3 Taj - OTTPP3 Seriously, if Taj doesn't get a PP, then it proves once and for all how biased Edgic is against females. That was classic PP shit right there. I forgot to give J.T. a P, or a CP, or whatever, cos his edit seemed so bland to me. Sure, it was kinda P, but compared to all the others (Erinn, Taj, Debbie, Stephen), his didn't stick out at all. Boring boring boring. Poor Debbie -- she was such a good character and her edit turned out to be a decent UTR edit at least, but I wish we would have seen more of her and less of Coach, J.T. & Stephen, who all just seem to repeat the same exact storylines every episode. Even Taj does. Erinn is the only one who's storyline keeps moving along, but it's harder for her to reach the #1 winner pick still. Winners list... 1. Stephen 2. Erinn
I LUV TIJUANA		#4480	[-]
Posts: 12811 (05/08/09 1:39 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm surprised Stephen is getting P's. He came off pretty negative to me with his Debbie imitation and the arrogance, but I suppose it's balanced out by the positive family stuff.

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