Daily Kos Talking Points wrote:DeBrun, you have no talent for character nics.
I told SI what to say, every word of it.
It's beautiful.
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CallMeMadam |
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Daily Kos Talking Points wrote:DeBrun, you have no talent for character nics. |
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Gregoire |
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He's making shit up as he goes along so don't expect him to go into details. I'm also secure in the knowledge that he's got access to all the CIA case files, so he can determine that they've achieved few meaningful results. Watch him repeat it a few more times to it cements as a "fact" in his little head. Once again, Merkyl goes for the funny bone. Actually I've read quite a bit on the history of the CIA, and it's an incredibly disorganized entity. You are not capable of sophisticated conversation -- and you mock anybody who is -- so I'll address squashthebeef, who is. There are over a hundred years of sophisticated psychological interrogation techniques. The problem is, the CIA/NSA are simply not trained to use them. They are not trained because the CIA no longer attracts talent -- or never keeps it around long enough. Its recruitment abilities have basically been in the shitter since Clinton. The distrust between the agency and the office of the president has been completely crippling since Carter. There are chemical and technological techniques as well, but I have no idea how 'above the law' they are. There are also technological surveillance techniques that preclude us technically ever torturing anyone in the first place.
Last Edited By: Gregoire
04/23/09 9:21 PM.
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Charming Nemesis |
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58% Say Release of CIA Memos Endangers National Security
Thursday, April 23, 2009 Fifty-eight percent (58%) believe the Obama administration's recent release of CIA memos about the harsh interrogation methods used on terrorism suspects endangers the national security of the United States. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 28% believe the release of the memos helps America's image abroad. Thirty-seven percent (37%) of voters now believe the U.S. legal system worries too much about protecting individual rights when national security is at stake. But 21% say the legal system is too concerned about protecting national security. Thirty-three percent (33%) say the balance between the two is about right. This reflects a significant shift over the past couple of years. In several surveys conducted during 2008, Americans were fairly evenly divided as to whether our legal system worried too much about individual rights or too much about protecting national security. (Want a free daily e-mail update? Sign up now. If it's in the news, it's in our polls.) Rasmussen Reports updates also available on Twitter Among all voters, 42% say terrorism suspects were tortured by the United States, but 37% disagree. The number who believe America used torture is unchanged from October 2007. Most Democrats (54%) and a plurality of unaffiliated voters (46%) believe the United States did torture terrorism suspects. Fifty-five percent (55%) of GOP voters do not believe torture was used. Only 28% of U.S. voters think the Obama administration should do any further investigating of how the Bush administration treated terrorism suspects. Fifty-eight percent (58%) are opposed. Democrats are evenly divided over whether further investigation is necessary. Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Republicans and 62% of voters not affiliated with either major party are against more investigating. Sizable majorities of Republicans and unaffiliated voters say the release of the CIA memos about the interrogations hurts national security. Democrats are evenly divided on whether the release hurt national security or helped the image of the United States abroad. Fifty-five percent (55%) of Republicans think the legal system worries too much about protecting individual rights at the expense of national security. Democrats and unaffiliated voters are more closely divided. A plurality of Democrats (44%) say the legal system's current balance between individual rights and national security is about right. Seventy-seven percent (77%) of all voters say they have followed news reports about the release of the CIA memos detailing Bush administration interrogation techniques at least somewhat closely. Only six percent (6%) say they have not followed the reports at all. Forty-six percent (46%) of voters disagree with Obama's decision to close the prison camp for terrorism suspects at the Guantanamo Naval Base in Cuba, while 36% agree with the president's action. Support for the decision has fallen since the president announced it in January. Half (50%) of U.S. voters believe the United States and its allies are winning the War on Terror. Forty-nine percent (49%) of voters now rate Obama as good or excellent on national security issues. |
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Pahrump Mania |
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So do we allow the CIA to use every technique possible to stop the Taliban from gaining nukes?
Or will we gain their respect by following the Geneva Conventions? U.S. officials and South Asian analysts are expressing concern over military and political gains being made by the Taliban in Pakistan. They say a recent agreement between the militants and the government in Islamabad is a dangerous policy of appeasement that could undermine efforts to fight terrorism and threaten the nation's stability. Analysts say the decision by the Pakistani parliament and President Asif Ali Zardari to allow Sharia, or Islamic law, in parts of the nation's northwest appears to have backfired. Instead of bringing peace to a region where hundreds have died in fighting between the Taliban and the Pakistani military, the agreement seems to have emboldened the militants who have not put down their weapons. Taliban fighters are now spreading their control over larger parts of the North-West Frontier Province, moving closer to the capital, Islamabad. Speaking recently before the U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used unusually blunt language, accusing the Pakistani government of "abdicating" to the Taliban and other extremists. "We cannot underscore [enough] the seriousness of the existential threat posed to the state of Pakistan by the continuing advances, now within hours of Islamabad that are being made by a loosely-confederated group of terrorists and others who are seeking the overthrow of the Pakistani state, which is, as we all know, a nuclear armed state," she said. The assault came shortly after the Pakistani government signed a peace agreement with the militants, establishing Islamic law in the nearby Swat Valley and other areas of the northwest. In announcing his administration's policies on Afghanistan and Pakistan last month, U.S. President Barack Obama left no doubt about how he views the extremist threat to Pakistan. "They have killed many Pakistani soldiers and police. They assassinated Benazir Bhutto. They have blown up buildings, derailed foreign investment and threatened the stability of the state. So make no mistake, al-Qaida and its extremist allies are a cancer that risks killing Pakistan from within," he said. Lisa Curtis, a South Asian specialist at the Washington-based Heritage Foundation, says the government in Islamabad is making a mistake by negotiating with the Taliban. "The government is continuing to pursue a policy of appeasement rather than direct confrontation of these extremists. And I think this is very dangerous for the country," warned Curtis. Curtis added that the recent political and military gains made by the Taliban, and their desire to spread militant Islam into the country's heartland raise questions about Pakistan's stability. "What we are seeing in the North-West Frontier Province - the spread of a very well armed, well prepared, well organized Islamist insurgency - is new for Pakistan. It is something that is starting to consume the country. There are a lot of questions about whether there is the potential for an Islamic revolution in Pakistan in the next six months," added Curtis. Members of the U.S. Congress are also expressing their concern. Senator Joseph Lieberman, in a recent address to the Council on Foreign Relations, said Islamabad's effort to use diplomacy to deal with the Taliban is against the best interests of Pakistan and the United States. "Now we have a large region, [the] Swat [Valley], essentially being taken over by more extremist forces," he said. "I worry about the accommodation going on to this element. I do not think in the long run it works for the current leadership of Pakistan, our allies, nor does it work for the people of Pakistan. And it certainly does not work for us." Senator Lieberman says Pakistanis must understand their major enemy in the region is no longer India. He says Islamist extremism is the main threat to Pakistan. |
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Gregoire |
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I agree, CM. The ridiculous situation we are in is that the CIA is inept, frighteningly ineffective, yet knowingly publicizing a weak CIA is even more
dangerous. I don't think there was any right way with those memos.
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superguppie |
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98% of readers think Charming Nemesis' post included the most boring article ever written.
Gregoire, I too am just curious. Why do you think the CIA is so ineffective? They seem to have been very effective in achieving their goals in many cases, although of course the consequences of their operations may have ultimately been adverse.
Last Edited By: superguppie
04/23/09 9:34 PM.
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Aunt Pappy |
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I'm glad you posted that, CN. I was just hearing about that...
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CallMeMadam |
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Yes, we get it. The end justifies the means. It is the Republican/Neocon mantra, the get out of jail free card. Hey if it helps you sleep at night, more power
to you.
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Pahrump Mania |
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It was so unfair that the USSR was destroyed with the help of the US and the CIA. A real immoral act.
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Gregoire |
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A truly operable international secret agency by definition will never be very effective unless they are out from underneath either the president or the
Constitution, and yet that result would be the scariest thing any American would ever want. Because of that, your cell phone company is more technologically
equipped and better staffed than the CIA. Or to put it another way, they were still fighting the Cold War on Sept. 10, 2001.
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thecolbster |
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Viccwhatever, you're neither charming nor a nemesis. Stop with the James Bond fantasies.
Here's the way I think about it. If you put in context, a lot of this "torture" stuff was done in 2002 after 9/11. That doesn't excuse the way the Bush administration ramrodded it (and bypassed) the justice department. However, I think most people would like to let it go and just think of it as an unfortunate time in our nation's history. Except for the insane conservatives who want to defend it by saying "IT WAS RIGHT. MORE MORE MORE. GITMO!". Not sure, but I think Atty General Holder said the same thing today. |
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SonOfAbraxas |
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Maybe the CIA is so secretive that they WANT us to think they're ineffective and less technologically equipped than a cell phone company to throw the bad
guys off!
How would any of us really know? |
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Gregoire |
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How do any of us know anything? I could be naked and wearing a clown mask right now.
Last Edited By: Gregoire
04/23/09 10:33 PM.
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SonOfAbraxas |
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That's hot.
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Charming Nemesis |
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thecolbster wrote:I love when stalkers pretend to not even know your name. If you are going to follow me around, we should get to know each other better. What's your favourite colour? Ice cream? Temperature? |
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thecolbster |
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Follow you around?
As if. Does this mean I can delete your friend request from ten months ago and not feel guilty about doing it? I'm sensy like that. FYI, my current stalking list only includes gregoire and hose (when he's having a gay day). Sorry. |
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HaroldBalzaccio |
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Gregoire wrote: Every book written by every "former" CIA officer is vetted by CIA censors long before it goes to the publisher. Every media interview is cleared beforehand. If we see one tenth of one percent of what actually goes on in our intelligence services, they're slacking on the job. How many decades passed before Julia Child was outed as an OSS asset? eta: And this... Gregoire wrote: I can tell you from first hand experience that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, and I've never worked for a cell phone company.
Last Edited By: HaroldBalzaccio
04/23/09 11:19 PM.
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donbrasco4 |
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thecolbster wrote:[thecolbster] I know what will stop that evil vicc, denying his online e-migo request. Vicc will never recover from the emotional loss of being on my top 8 yuku profiles. [/thecolbster] As an aside, do the friend requests stay on your navigation bar all that time? |
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TobaccoRhoda |
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Will some of you children go rent "Charlie Wilson's War" and see the type of things that we did in order to protect this country and other parts of the world during the Cold War. Or perhaps rent A Few Good Men and peruse Nicholson's speech from the witness stand. Jessep: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to! |
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memyselfandi |
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Pahrump Mania wrote:Yeah we destroyed the USSR by letting the CIA train and arm Islamic militants in Afghanistan to draw the Soviets into a prolonged intractable conflict that bankrupted the country. That didn't backfire at all. |
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