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Trixie Delight |
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GE has made shit products for years. Despite some gains, I had to quit the greed factor and sold off every last bit of stock I owned in it a while back.
Fuckas.
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blockhose |
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If they would've just moved their operations overseas, they could've been competitive with their crappy products!
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unkle greggo |
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blockhose wrote: Again. Not a right winger. Even Nubber acknowledged that. |
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TobaccoRhoda |
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Link to where it says that an attack on LA was stopped by torture. Sure thing. Here it is again. Why We Waterboarded Abu Zubaydah Yesterday, former CIA director Michael Hayden put to rest the notion that harsh interrogations 'didn't make us safer': The facts of the case are that the use of these techniques against these terrorists made us safer. It really did work. The president's speech, President Bush in September of '06, outlined how one detainee led to another, led to another, with the use of these techniques. President Bush's September 2006 speech may be found here. Here's the excerpt to which Hayden referred: Within months of September the 11th, 2001, we captured a man known as Abu Zubaydah. We believe that Zubaydah was a senior terrorist leader and a trusted associate of Osama bin Laden. Our intelligence community believes he had run a terrorist camp in Afghanistan where some of the 9/11 hijackers trained, and that he helped smuggle al Qaeda leaders out of Afghanistan after coalition forces arrived to liberate that country. Zubaydah was severely wounded during the firefight that brought him into custody -- and he survived only because of the medical care arranged by the CIA. After he recovered, Zubaydah was defiant and evasive. He declared his hatred of America. During questioning, he at first disclosed what he thought was nominal information -- and then stopped all cooperation. Well, in fact, the "nominal" information he gave us turned out to be quite important. For example, Zubaydah disclosed Khalid Sheikh Mohammed -- or KSM -- was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks, and used the alias "Muktar." This was a vital piece of the puzzle that helped our intelligence community pursue KSM. Abu Zubaydah also provided information that helped stop a terrorist attack being planned for inside the United States -- an attack about which we had no previous information. Zubaydah told us that al Qaeda operatives were planning to launch an attack in the U.S., and provided physical descriptions of the operatives and information on their general location. Based on the information he provided, the operatives were detained -- one while traveling to the United States. We knew that Zubaydah had more information that could save innocent lives, but he stopped talking. As his questioning proceeded, it became clear that he had received training on how to resist interrogation. And so the CIA used an alternative set of procedures. These procedures were designed to be safe, to comply with our laws, our Constitution, and our treaty obligations. The Department of Justice reviewed the authorized methods extensively and determined them to be lawful. I cannot describe the specific methods used -- I think you understand why -- if I did, it would help the terrorists learn how to resist questioning, and to keep information from us that we need to prevent new attacks on our country. But I can say the procedures were tough, and they were safe, and lawful, and necessary. Zubaydah was questioned using these procedures, and soon he began to provide information on key al Qaeda operatives, including information that helped us find and capture more of those responsible for the attacks on September the 11th. For example, Zubaydah identified one of KSM's accomplices in the 9/11 attacks -- a terrorist named Ramzi bin al Shibh. The information Zubaydah provided helped lead to the capture of bin al Shibh. And together these two terrorists provided information that helped in the planning and execution of the operation that captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Once in our custody, KSM was questioned by the CIA using these procedures, and he soon provided information that helped us stop another planned attack on the United States. During questioning, KSM told us about another al Qaeda operative he knew was in CIA custody -- a terrorist named Majid Khan. KSM revealed that Khan had been told to deliver $50,000 to individuals working for a suspected terrorist leader named Hambali, the leader of al Qaeda's Southeast Asian affiliate known as "J-I". CIA officers confronted Khan with this information. Khan confirmed that the money had been delivered to an operative named Zubair, and provided both a physical description and contact number for this operative. Based on that information, Zubair was captured in June of 2003, and he soon provided information that helped lead to the capture of Hambali. After Hambali's arrest, KSM was questioned again. He identified Hambali's brother as the leader of a "J-I" cell, and Hambali's conduit for communications with al Qaeda. Hambali's brother was soon captured in Pakistan, and, in turn, led us to a cell of 17 Southeast Asian "J-I" operatives. When confronted with the news that his terror cell had been broken up, Hambali admitted that the operatives were being groomed at KSM's request for attacks inside the United States -- probably [sic] using airplanes. During questioning, KSM also provided many details of other plots to kill innocent Americans. For example, he described the design of planned attacks on buildings inside the United States, and how operatives were directed to carry them out. He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent the people trapped above from escaping out the windows. KSM also provided vital information on al Qaeda's efforts to obtain biological weapons. During questioning, KSM admitted that he had met three individuals involved in al Qaeda's efforts to produce anthrax, a deadly biological agent -- and he identified one of the individuals as a terrorist named Yazid. KSM apparently believed we already had this information, because Yazid had been captured and taken into foreign custody before KSM's arrest. In fact, we did not know about Yazid's role in al Qaeda's anthrax program. Information from Yazid then helped lead to the capture of his two principal assistants in the anthrax program. Without the information provided by KSM and Yazid, we might not have uncovered this al Qaeda biological weapons program, or stopped this al Qaeda cell from developing anthrax for attacks against the United States. These are some of the plots that have been stopped because of the information of this vital program. Terrorists held in CIA custody have also provided information that helped stop a planned strike on U.S. Marines at Camp Lemonier in Djibouti -- they were going to use an explosive laden water tanker. They helped stop a planned attack on the U.S. consulate in Karachi using car bombs and motorcycle bombs, and they helped stop a plot to hijack passenger planes and fly them into Heathrow or the Canary Wharf in London. We're getting vital information necessary to do our jobs, and that's to protect the American people and our allies. Information from the terrorists in this program has helped us to identify individuals that al Qaeda deemed suitable for Western operations, many of whom we had never heard about before. They include terrorists who were set to case targets inside the United States, including financial buildings in major cities on the East Coast. Information from terrorists in CIA custody has played a role in the capture or questioning of nearly every senior al Qaeda member or associate detained by the U.S. and its allies since this program began. By providing everything from initial leads to photo identifications, to precise locations of where terrorists were hiding, this program has helped us to take potential mass murderers off the streets before they were able to kill. Posted by John McCormack on April 20, 2009 05:53 PM | Permalink AND LA Times gives the low down: Defenders of the practice say the waterboarding of Al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced information that allowed the U.S government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles in 2002. According to a previously classified May 30, 2005, Justice Department memo that the Obama administration released last week, before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, "Soon, you will know." After the "enhanced techniques," which the agency used on him 183 times, KSM -- the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks -- told investigators about a "second wave" of terrorists from East Asia who planned to crash a hijacked airliner into a building in Los Angeles. AND The CIA confirmed that waterboarding 9-11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed led to information that prevented a similar attack on Los Angeles. CNS News reported: The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of "enhanced techniques" of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles. Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, "Soon, you will know." According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the "Second Wave"-- planned " 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles." |
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Fezzzy |
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Uh, didn't she ask for a LINK!?
Another example of conservative idiocy. |
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BBSpencer |
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Maybe Osama was sick of Survivor recruiting.
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blockhose |
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unkle greggo wrote: My apologies, greggo. Allow me to amend my statement:
Better? |
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SonOfAbraxas |
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Merkyl's a lib now?
Oh, that's just hose. |
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blockhose |
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Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, don't you think?
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SonOfAbraxas |
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hose and merkyl
sittin' in a tree A-R-G-U-I-N-G |
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Gregoire |
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Something can still be effective AND prohibited because it's barbaric. Killing a person's family in front of their eyes would have also been effective.
We probably would have gotten MORE information that way.
How do you know those same results couldn't have been achieved through more conventional modes of interrogation, i.e more advanced modes of interrogation? Just because our fight is with sand barbarians doesn't mean we need to conduct ourselves with our knuckles dragging. Don't get me wrong, I'm not for the prosecution of CIA officers but I just want to know why people cling so steadfast to that which is so obviously clearly primitive just because Dick Cheney furrowed his brow and says there was no choice. The CIA is one of the most incompetent groups ever created by the US government. They live upon reputation and secrecy but have over 50 years time achieved few meaningful results. Although I think prosecutions would just end up clogging the courts and amount to nothing, I'm just not overly willing to take their word for much these days.
Last Edited By: Gregoire
04/23/09 8:41 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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squashthebeef |
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i.e more advanced modes of interrogation such as? I'm not looking for a fight here, I'm really asking. |
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superguppie |
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Well, to be fair, the CIA did a pretty bang-up job in Afghanistan and Guatemala. They achieved their aims handily.
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thecolbster |
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I'm totally "meh" on the torture thing but didn't Cheney's daughter (the non-lesbian one) come out today to defend her dad? I'm
wondering who the Cheney family will drag out next.
I expect to see Cousin Oliver this weekend on Meet the Press. |
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merkyl |
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He's making shit up as he goes along so don't expect him to go into details. I'm also secure in the knowledge that he's got access to all the
CIA case files, so he can determine that they've achieved few meaningful results. Watch him repeat it a few more times to it cements as a "fact"
in his little head.
And you'd think after Hose's embarrassing whining the other day he'd quit this thread altogether. |
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SurvivorAko.survivorphilipp... |
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Obama is your president, live with it!
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squashthebeef |
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Well, I guess we can shut this down now.
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SurvivorAko.survivorphilipp... |
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Yeah.
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CallMeMadam |
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not for the prosecution of CIA officers but I just want to know why people cling so steadfast to that which is so obviously clearly primitive just because Dick Cheney furrowed his brow and says there was no choice.Republicans not only cling to torture, they equate it with being pro-American. Nothing could be further from the truth. General Washington forbid torture as a barbaric tactic, and the USA prosecuted and executed Japanese officials for waterboarding American soldiers during WWII. Waterboarding, also known as the Chinese Water Torture. See, it's known as the Chinese Water Torture. Not the Chinese Water Enhanched Interrogation Technique. But according to the sociopathic Republican party of today, torture is not only peachy keen, it's as American as apple pie. A question for TobaccoRhoda. Is the president above the law? |
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Daily Kos Talking Points |
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I told SI what to say, every word of it.
It's beautiful. |
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