4/8/09 Ep12 "Dead is Dead"

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WiscBadger95

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(04/09/09 2:37 PM)

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cindidindi76 wrote:
Considering he fell through a walkway to get to it, it's probably been a long ass time since anyone has been down there. I bet Richard knows about it, though.

True that. But my point is that it's just one more piece of evidence -- to me, at least -- that Ben is more pretender than true king. It's one more important thing about the Island that he knew nothing about.

Charming Nemesis

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(04/09/09 2:38 PM)

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PoChop wrote:
This is the carving at the Smokey altar. Smokey looks like lightning and Abe Vigoda all wrapped up into one. But interestingly it doesn't really look like smoke. That's assuming Anubis is kneeling before Smokey and not some other deity.

Smokey looks rather "electric" there.

PumaPeggy

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(04/09/09 2:38 PM)

I don't get
most of the jokes

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I totally loved Ben's explanation for having killed John...not having the time to talk him back into suicide...lol.

I don't think Ben could have fooled the smoke monster. So I'm going to believe Ben was totally sorry for his sins in the past. I just hope he appreciates the fact he was spared and follows it's instructions.

Manila ESQ

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(04/09/09 2:42 PM)

Osten

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If this entire show is all about the power struggle between Charles and Ben, and that Smokey just takes the form of dead bodies in that island (Christian, Locke, Yemi, Alex), then Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc. merely becomes incidental pieces to the story. So, why did we have to know a lot about them in the flashbacks? Lol... It was said that they are on that island for a purpose, but now, their purpose seems pretty insignificant.

Antithesys

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(04/09/09 2:48 PM)

Gadabout

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Anti, that's not right. The Variable, the episode after next, is episode #100

You're right, wikipedia wasn't counting the s1,2 & 3 finales as two episodes each. At the end of this season there will have been 103 episodes, excluding the ten clip shows and counting 2-hour episodes as two.

FeliciaM7

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(04/09/09 2:52 PM)

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If this entire show is all about the power struggle between Charles and Ben, and that Smokey just takes the form of dead bodies in that island (Christian, Locke, Yemi, Alex), then Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc. merely becomes incidental pieces to the story. So, why did we have to know a lot about them in the flashbacks? Lol... It was said that they are on that island for a purpose, but now, their purpose seems pretty insignificant.

Thank you for posting exactly what I've been thinking. Last night's eppy was great. But I've noticed that the episodes after the "skipping" stopped, I started losing some enthusiasm. And I've never felt like that before - even during seasons/parts of seasons that a lot of posters bitched about. *sigh*

WiscBadger95

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(04/09/09 3:00 PM)

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FYI, from BuddyTV.com (it's #2) ...

Risk

Clearly no one has been to Ben's house in a very long time, because the Risk board was still set up the exact same way it was when Keamy and his men attacked and killed Alex three years earlier.

And here are large views of before and after (note that in the second picture, you're looking at the table from the perspective Locke had in the first picture)...

From "The Shape of Thing To Come" (ep. 4x09)

Large View

From "Dead is Dead" (ep. 5x12)

Large View

Fluffynurse

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(04/09/09 3:00 PM)

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WiscBadger95 wrote:

cindidindi76 wrote:
Considering he fell through a walkway to get to it, it's probably been a long ass time since anyone has been down there. I bet Richard knows about it, though.
True that. But my point is that it's just one more piece of evidence -- to me, at least -- that Ben is more pretender than true king. It's one more important thing about the Island that he knew nothing about.

I got the feeling that even Locke didn't know about the area under the walkway. He told Ben right away that he'd go find something to help him climb back up with. If he'd known about it he should have told Ben to stay down there & wait for smokey. But maybe Locke was only surprized Ben fell. He could have had another entrance in mind.

WiscBadger95

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(04/09/09 3:03 PM)

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Fluffynurse wrote:

WiscBadger95 wrote:

cindidindi76 wrote:
Considering he fell through a walkway to get to it, it's probably been a long ass time since anyone has been down there. I bet Richard knows about it, though.
True that. But my point is that it's just one more piece of evidence -- to me, at least -- that Ben is more pretender than true king. It's one more important thing about the Island that he knew nothing about.

I got the feeling that even Locke didn't know about the area under the walkway. He told Ben right away that he'd go find something to help him climb back up with. If he'd known about it he should have told Ben to stay down there & wait for smokey. But maybe Locke was only surprized Ben fell. He could have had another entrance in mind.

You're right on that. But at least Locke knew that they needed to go under the Temple wall and not through it.

Arec49

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(04/09/09 3:22 PM)

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OOOO Where to start:

The woman giving birth to Ben was definitely not the woman who tracked adult Locke
down at the grocery store, but I think she was a fake hired by Cooper.

Incorrect! I was rewatching Season 1 this week. Locke hired a private investigator who tailed Swoosie (old redhead) to her car and collected DNA evidence that concluded without a doubt she was Locke's mother, and he even had her driver's liscence photo. Not to mention when she showed up in Locke's hospital room after Cooper ditched him she was genuinely sorry (in the way that a batshit crazy mom would be) that she introduced the 2. I think that Cooper was the faker, not Emily. And I think that there may be something behind her claim that John was "imacculately concieved" (oh come on he just rose from the dead ON EASTER WEEK! the is rediculous!)

P.S. Yay for Penny living <3

Not so fast. Desmond knocks gun into water===>Desmond knocks Ben into same water===> Uh Oh. Nobody said Penny was alive. Nobody said she was dead, we still don't know what happened there because obviously Ben got our of the water. Maybe he got out and Penny and Des were long gone....maybe not....

Or the large shipping container full of weapons.

Hold that thought! I doubt that was just a shipping container full of M14s man. For one thing they were WAY too intent on carrying it into the jungle without opening it and seperating the wieght of the load (thus the bamboo rods to carry it like the Ark of the Covenenant in Raiders of the lost Ark). Also, it seemed to quietly dominate thier purpose on that Island. Is it just me or has Illiana and her crew been working on that thing since they dusted themselves off on that beach? Methinks that this is something far more than a box of pea shooters. Jughead? Ark? Weapon to fight smokey?

Anubis was like the Egyptian mummy God and here we have these walking dead guys guiding everyone to his temple. I don't know that Anubis was kneeling to Smokey in that paicture...maybe more summoning it like a snakecharmer. The Heiroglyphs I cannot decipher, there are various symbols in there: Eye/See,Snake/Worm, the symbol of RA with the Radius lines to make it look like the Donkey Wheel...etc...BTW didn't anyone catch the hidden meaning in the upcoming episode: Some like it Hoth (read:Some like I, Thoth).

Thoth
8<-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was said that he was the author of the spells in the "Book of the Dead" and "Book of Breathings" (which was also attributed to Isis) and he was given the grand title, the "Author of Every Work on Every Branch of Knowledge, Both Human and Divine". Egyptian mythology speaks of the "Book of Thoth" in which the god inscribed all of the secrets of the universe. Anyone who read it would become the most powerful sorcerer in the world, but would be cursed by their knowledge. Needless to say, people have been searching for this text despite the warning, and some more "colourful" theories propose that it is hidden in a secret chamber in or near the Great Pyramid. This book is said by some to be the "emerald tablets of Thoth" a work of dubious authenticity which suggests that Thoth and the other gods were from Atlantis.

Antithesys

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(04/09/09 3:30 PM)

Gadabout

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I'd like to point out that this episode proved the processing center was in Otherville and not a separate building near the docks. So why did the Others leave it as a processing center?

Arec49

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(04/09/09 3:32 PM)

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As for the Risk thing, I remember that episode well. I also remember that (iirc) Sawyer was chastizing (iirc) Hurley for locking himself into Austrailia. Kinda ironic seeing as how at the time Keamy was the leader of a hostile Army coming to attack thier Island via the only bearing making it possible to get there =)

Trivia time!

Take the number of people who supposedly died on flight 815
-unborn Aaron
=what was the bearing to the Island again?

8 >

cindidindi76

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(04/09/09 3:36 PM)

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WiscBadger95 wrote:

cindidindi76 wrote:
Considering he fell through a walkway to get to it, it's probably been a long ass time since anyone has been down there. I bet Richard knows about it, though.
True that. But my point is that it's just one more piece of evidence -- to me, at least -- that Ben is more pretender than true king. It's one more important thing about the Island that he knew nothing about.

I've been saying for a while that possibly everyone other than Richard is/has been a "pretender", and that's just the way he likes it.

As for the Risk thing, I remember that episode well. I also remember that (iirc) Sawyer was chastizing (iirc) Hurley for locking himself into Austrailia.

I thought it was the other way around, Hurley telling Sawyer not to bother with Australia. Not that it matters, really, lol.

Arec49

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(04/09/09 3:45 PM)

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So why did the Others leave it as a processing center?

They might have redecorated if not for the fact that thier local Home Depot had a horrible selection of patterns.

FeliciaM7

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(04/09/09 4:18 PM)

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Incorrect! I was rewatching Season 1 this week. Locke hired a private investigator who tailed Swoosie (old redhead) to her car and collected DNA evidence that concluded without a doubt she was Locke's mother, and he even had her driver's liscence photo. Not to mention when she showed up in Locke's hospital room after Cooper ditched him she was genuinely sorry (in the way that a batshit crazy mom would be) that she introduced the 2. Thanks Arec. I KNEW she was Locke's real mother but I rarely watch episodes again so I forget everything that could back up my opinions. :) As for Anthony Cooper being his real father, I don't doubt that either. What was the purpose of the Others expecting John to kill Cooper? Because it was beyond evil that his biological father used him, then pushed his ass through a window. So now we know Ben and Locke have different mothers. (unless you wanna argue that the chick who gave birth to Ben was Emily Locke played by woman who looked totally different.) [Flashback to Locke with a private eye]
Frainey : Emily Annabeth Locke in 10,000 words or less.
Locke: So, she's my mother.
Frainey :I lifted some hairs from her car and matched them with your DNA samples. It's 99% certain. She was institutionalized a few times.

pussycow

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(04/09/09 4:20 PM)

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Manila ESQ wrote:

WallJ wrote:

gcodori wrote:

How could you guys NOT know the huntress was working for Widmore? She said (flat out) to Sayid that she was going to make him pay for what he did (killing the Widmore goons). I'm surprised the writers made her tell her intentions so soon in the show. I know the badge and handcuffs means she also works for the feds, law enforcement, etc, but she still has ties to Widmore.

My wife (not an avid Lost watcher) caught on to this - she even thought the huntress was the spy that Sayid shot last season. It's rare that this show transmits it's intentions so clearly after years of vague characters and questions...

As I mentioned above, if she were working for Widmore, wouldnt she immediately have known who Locke and Ben were?

I just think the "316ers are working for Widmore" idea is being shown as too obvious. New theory of mine is this: the 316ers are working for...Ben. though not fully fleshed out, here is my thinking:

- Ben hired people (including Ilana) to get on that flight on the chance that he didn't make it to the plane. Or if he didn't hire them, these are "others" who happened to be on the outside world in 2008 that he called in. But he knows a war is coming and he wants reinforcements.

- If Ben hired her, she'd also know everything about the guy who Sayid killed. Did we ever really know how Widmore knew Sayid was killing for Ben?

- We don't know who all Ilana's people are. I believe that Cesar was not one of them. He just assumed a position of power and aligned himself with Ilana.

- Ben blows away Cesar, allowing himself time to get to the main island...and eliminating Ilana's main power threat. And just how did Ben know Cesar had that shotgun anyway?

- It is quite convenient that Ilana's people just happen to find the shipment of guns after Ben leaves for the main island. Then when Lapidus returns, his treatment by Ilana was pretty reminiscent to me of how the Others treated the 815ers in earlier seasons.

- The question she asked of Lapidus could have been prompted by Ben. ie ask this if someone comes back before me.

At this time, I don't think it's Charles or Ben. She could have been sent there by the Dharma Initiative to "reclaim" the island. She's there to look for someone too, and that person is the one who can answer her question. I think that person is Miles (Dr. Chang's son). It is also no coincidence that Miles and Dr. Chang figured prominently in next week's episode.

Didn't Dharma send food by parachute to the island as recent as 2004 (few weeks after Oceanic crashed)? This means that the Dharma Initiative is still alive.

I think there was a podcast or something where Darlton said that you shouldn't assume the food drop actually came from off island (or maybe it was we shouldn't assume it came from a plane....which still would mean it didn't come from off island)

pussycow

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(04/09/09 4:31 PM)

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cindidindi76 wrote:

As for the Risk thing, I remember that episode well. I also remember that (iirc) Sawyer was chastizing (iirc) Hurley for locking himself into Austrailia.

I thought it was the other way around, Hurley telling Sawyer not to bother with Australia. Not that it matters, really, lol.

Yup, and Hurley said "Australia is the key to the whole game". Which could mean something......or not

Ah Arec gets the prize for putting the kibosh on Emily Linus being Locke's mom!

phantomkp

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(04/09/09 4:40 PM)

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Manila ESQ wrote:
If this entire show is all about the power struggle between Charles and Ben, and that Smokey just takes the form of dead bodies in that island (Christian, Locke, Yemi, Alex), then Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc. merely becomes incidental pieces to the story. So, why did we have to know a lot about them in the flashbacks? Lol... It was said that they are on that island for a purpose, but now, their purpose seems pretty insignificant.

Isnt that like saying Han Solo, Obi Wan, and Princess Lea are insignificant to Star Wars because it seems to really be just the battles between Luke and Darth Vader?

I can see where you might focus that way, but it doesnt make it completely true.

You are judging 6 seasons of a shows arc primarily on a handful of episodes? Thats not fair.

Yes, there isa power struggle between Widmore and Ben..and it will come to a head in Season 6. And who knows, Hanso and Jacob might get involved too.

But that doesnt mean the stories of the losties are less important somehow. They have always been integral to the story...not just in term of setting the stage of the plot, but by being the examples of how a persons past/present/future affect each other and how much one can change their own personal fate/destiny. And no doubt that the living losties will have important roles to play in the fate of the Island and the power players.

But its very wrong to assume Lost is all about what happens to Ben and Widmore. Thats insignificant to the broader story being told.

FeliciaM7

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(04/09/09 4:45 PM)

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