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the editing in the first few seasons was fucking amazing

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4 Horsemen		#41	[-]
Posts: 223 (03/17/09 5:29 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Small Town Boy wrote: lol, my favorite seasons are seasons 1-3. I still get goosepimples when I think back to the summer of 2000. We will never have another Borneo style edited cast. Everything now is about the game (less about personalities) and how many blindsides and 20 year olds can be fit into a single season. Thank the lord for that.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#42	[-]
Posts: 7776 (03/17/09 9:17 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OzarkSurvivor wrote: Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: I agree with everything except your acceptence of the HII. Survivor is very dynamic by its very nature, because it's a social experiment. The HII impedes this dynamicism because it assumes everyone wants to play the game. When talking about the show, you have to assume that people are playing optimally. When they are, the person who discovers the HII is always in a position of unresonable power. An alliance forms and it keeps people in a certain pecking order. That's not interesting, it's the same thing you just raillied against. If they aren't playing optimally, the HII still has unresonable power because the holder is totally unpredictable and people hedge their bets by aligning with their vote. In other words, the idol fundamentally changes the show from its roots and makes it a game of who controls the idol, not surviving. China and Micronesia pretty much showed that this is false. It's actually very easy to get rid of the person with the idol, you just make them think they're safe without using it. So that means Survivor boils down to two plots. Either the idol holder controls the game or they are blindsided. Both scenarios are deathly boring. I'd hate to sound like Artiee but I'm just going to go out and say it: You're not a true Survivor fan if you like the HII.
PKFA		#43	[-]
Posts: 573 (03/17/09 9:49 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: So that means Survivor boils down to two plots. Either the idol holder controls the game or they are blindsided. Both scenarios are deathly boring. I'd hate to sound like Artiee but I'm just going to go out and say it: You're not a true Survivor fan if you like the HII. Riiiiiight, because there's no way somebody could ever enjoy all the seasons, with or without the idol. Far be it from you to dictate who is a 'true fan' of the show based on some statement you make to validate your own opinions, and present them as fact.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#44	[-]
Posts: 7777 (03/17/09 9:55 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I enjoy every season, and I would never go as far as to say that the more "idle" seasons aren't legitimate. I'm saying that the show has a specific purpose and the HII taints that.
MikeHaggarKJ		#45	[-]
Posts: 523 (03/17/09 3:43 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OzarkSurvivor wrote: Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: I agree with everything except your acceptence of the HII. Survivor is very dynamic by its very nature, because it's a social experiment. The HII impedes this dynamicism because it assumes everyone wants to play the game. When talking about the show, you have to assume that people are playing optimally. When they are, the person who discovers the HII is always in a position of unresonable power. An alliance forms and it keeps people in a certain pecking order. That's not interesting, it's the same thing you just raillied against. If they aren't playing optimally, the HII still has unresonable power because the holder is totally unpredictable and people hedge their bets by aligning with their vote. In other words, the idol fundamentally changes the show from its roots and makes it a game of who controls the idol, not surviving. China and Micronesia pretty much showed that this is false. It's actually very easy to get rid of the person with the idol, you just make them think they're safe without using it. ... do you realize how retarded it is to assume that thats easy...?
Xyston		#46	[-]
Posts: 162 (03/17/09 3:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: OzarkSurvivor wrote: Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: I agree with everything except your acceptence of the HII. Survivor is very dynamic by its very nature, because it's a social experiment. The HII impedes this dynamicism because it assumes everyone wants to play the game. When talking about the show, you have to assume that people are playing optimally. When they are, the person who discovers the HII is always in a position of unresonable power. An alliance forms and it keeps people in a certain pecking order. That's not interesting, it's the same thing you just raillied against. If they aren't playing optimally, the HII still has unresonable power because the holder is totally unpredictable and people hedge their bets by aligning with their vote. In other words, the idol fundamentally changes the show from its roots and makes it a game of who controls the idol, not surviving. China and Micronesia pretty much showed that this is false. It's actually very easy to get rid of the person with the idol, you just make them think they're safe without using it. So that means Survivor boils down to two plots. Either the idol holder controls the game or they are blindsided. Both scenarios are deathly boring. I'd hate to sound like Artiee but I'm just going to go out and say it: You're not a true Survivor fan if you like the HII.
OzarkSurvivor		#47	[-]
Posts: 773 (03/18/09 6:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: OzarkSurvivor wrote: Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: I agree with everything except your acceptence of the HII. Survivor is very dynamic by its very nature, because it's a social experiment. The HII impedes this dynamicism because it assumes everyone wants to play the game. When talking about the show, you have to assume that people are playing optimally. When they are, the person who discovers the HII is always in a position of unresonable power. An alliance forms and it keeps people in a certain pecking order. That's not interesting, it's the same thing you just raillied against. If they aren't playing optimally, the HII still has unresonable power because the holder is totally unpredictable and people hedge their bets by aligning with their vote. In other words, the idol fundamentally changes the show from its roots and makes it a game of who controls the idol, not surviving. China and Micronesia pretty much showed that this is false. It's actually very easy to get rid of the person with the idol, you just make them think they're safe without using it. So that means Survivor boils down to two plots. Either the idol holder controls the game or they are blindsided. Both scenarios are deathly boring. I'd hate to sound like Artiee but I'm just going to go out and say it: You're not a true Survivor fan if you like the HII. Not true. While the editors like to shove the HII down our throats, the holder doesn't necessarily control the game (Cirie had power, Terry just won stuff), and the holder getting blindsided isn't the ONLY plot that we see after that. Look at China and Micronesia: after James and Ozzy got booted, there was still a whole game to finish playing. It's not like it's the end of time once the HII holder gets blindsided. I actually don't like the HII. It was interesting for a while, but its novelty has been exhausted, and you can have just as interesting gameplay without it. I got tired of hearing about Sugar's HII during every single episode recap, but it was pretty cool to see how she let Matty use it (even though he didn't need it). Personally, I consider Survivor to be about human interaction, and the players involved, not whether every season is shockily epic or "deathly boring." So it sounds like you need other people and things to keep you entertained.
OzarkSurvivor		#48	[-]
Posts: 774 (03/18/09 6:58 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	MikeHaggarKJ wrote: OzarkSurvivor wrote: Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: I agree with everything except your acceptence of the HII. Survivor is very dynamic by its very nature, because it's a social experiment. The HII impedes this dynamicism because it assumes everyone wants to play the game. When talking about the show, you have to assume that people are playing optimally. When they are, the person who discovers the HII is always in a position of unresonable power. An alliance forms and it keeps people in a certain pecking order. That's not interesting, it's the same thing you just raillied against. If they aren't playing optimally, the HII still has unresonable power because the holder is totally unpredictable and people hedge their bets by aligning with their vote. In other words, the idol fundamentally changes the show from its roots and makes it a game of who controls the idol, not surviving. China and Micronesia pretty much showed that this is false. It's actually very easy to get rid of the person with the idol, you just make them think they're safe without using it. ... do you realize how retarded it is to assume that thats easy...? It can't be that hard if it happened three times in two seasons (China and FVF). Good players can make it happen. If you can't make it happen, then maybe somewhere down the line you sent the wrong person to exile. There are too many factors involved to make it simple, but Survivor's always been about adaptation. If you adapt, you win, if not, DIAF.
tomersde		#49	[-]
Posts: 331 (03/19/09 6:35 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	4 Horsemen wrote: Small Town Boy wrote: lol, my favorite seasons are seasons 1-3. I still get goosepimples when I think back to the summer of 2000. We will never have another Borneo style edited cast. Everything now is about the game (less about personalities) and how many blindsides and 20 year olds can be fit into a single season. Pray to the lord for that. Fixed.
spyzsrvvrcharmd		#50	[-]
Posts: 1119 (03/21/09 8:05 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The show has evolved. It will not go back to the Borneo style of editing. We should be proud that with the change in editing, the show still made it to an 18th season.
pushingjate		#51	[-]
Posts: 3031 (05/28/09 8:13 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Survivor will be around for a few more years, because it's cheap to produce and it's still bringing in the #s, but I'm definitely a fan of the older season. The focus on personalities/camp dynamics/survival elements were actually intriguing. While Australia didn't have the strategy that Survivor has nowadays, it was great because of the focus on survival. The flood episodes were some of the best episodes Survivor ever put out in all 18 seasons. And back then, not all rewards were big feasts. I wish they'd go back to the glory days.
nordicsurvivor		#52	[-]
Posts: 375 (05/28/09 9:21 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	pushingjate wrote: Survivor will be around for a few more years, because it's cheap to produce and it's still bringing in the #s, but I'm definitely a fan of the older season. The focus on personalities/camp dynamics/survival elements were actually intriguing. While Australia didn't have the strategy that Survivor has nowadays, it was great because of the focus on survival. The flood episodes were some of the best episodes Survivor ever put out in all 18 seasons. And back then, not all rewards were big feasts. I wish they'd go back to the glory days. The biggest red X you can imagine
dcsurvivor		#53	[-]
Posts: 341 (05/28/09 10:31 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Don't get me wrong.........I loved Borneo, but when I rewatch it... I sort of laugh......compared to later seasons, it was way underproduced........it almost feels a little cheesy in comparison to current seasons......explaining the rules at each challenge....what a reward challenge is......what an immunity challenge is, and then....that trunk of cash......c'mon........In retrospect, it is sort of fitting when you consider the winner was Richard Hatch......
tomersde		#54	[-]
Posts: 372 (05/28/09 1:16 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The trunk with the cash was awsome. The beauty of Borneo is its documentary look. And of course they had to explain everything, it was the first season.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#55	[-]
Posts: 8120 (05/28/09 1:35 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It was far from a documentary. I'll admit that Borneo was underproduced in the respect that they occasionally reused footage(How many times did we see Rudy throwing that knife?), but it is head and shoulders above the other seasons in its visceral impact. You could feel how it was to be out there, and none of it felt forced. Also, it was an adventure, not just a game. I've only felt the level of excitement I had for Borneo one other time: BB6.
howiekendrick		#56	[-]
Posts: 106 (05/28/09 1:40 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I tend to agree with the OP, although I just watched Marquesas and was struck by the number of invisibles in that season. Basically, the only characters they focused on were Boston Rob, Kathy, Sean, Sarah, John, Neleh, and Paschal. I didn't even realize there was a Tammy or a Zoe until John created his alliance. Robert seemed like he could have been an interesting character, but they rarely showed him until the couple episodes leading up to his boot. Vecepia was practically invisible until the F6.
tullfan2		#57	[-]
Posts: 3436 (05/28/09 6:20 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Dr Will Hatch two point oh wrote: It was far from a documentary. I'll admit that Borneo was underproduced in the respect that they occasionally reused footage(How many times did we see Rudy throwing that knife?), but it is head and shoulders above the other seasons in its visceral impact. You could feel how it was to be out there, and none of it felt forced. Also, it was an adventure, not just a game. I've only felt the level of excitement I had for Borneo one other time: BB6. Borneo was a once in a life time show. Survivor is going to make at least 20 seasons and there would have been no way there would have been so many seasons of Survivor had they not changed the emphasis to the game rather than the Survival experience. Most people can only watch people catching fish, gathering shell fish, eating rats and insects, starting fires, building shelters and complaining about being hungry, wet and cold a few times before they get bored and move on to other types of entertainment that they find less repititious and more satisfying. In addition, no one in Borneo other than Hatch, Sue and maybe Stacy and Joel realized that Survivor was a game of strategy and social bonding at the start. Even though the survival aspects were still very important to Survivor Australia Outback, most of that cast had watched Borneo and knew that it was a game from the first day.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#58	[-]
Posts: 8125 (05/28/09 6:25 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I agree with you, but I think they should push strategy to the sidelines. People like us who discuss strategy would do so regardless if it was choreographed on screen or not. Besides, the show can't document every minute piece of social strategy in less than an hour per week, so we may as well get to know the castaways instead and witness their struggle.
pushingjate		#59	[-]
Posts: 3033 (05/28/09 6:45 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm not saying spend all the time on the survival elements, but they rarely even show tribes struggling to make fire even more. And the challenges have become so complex now. In the earlier seasons, challenges were kept simple, but interesting. I'd love to see them go back to those, with disgusting food challenge + fallen comrades making a return. Also, I love how each survivor used their luxury item for something good in the camp and that was always showcased. I don't even think they do luxury items anymore, do they?
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#60	[-]
Posts: 8126 (05/28/09 6:50 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	No, and they only show tree mail like twice a season too. Instead, we are treated to that retarded "Come on in guys" thing, and then Jeff does his spiel.

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