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survivorjb2003 |
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Ok, so my DVR cut off right after Cesar said "the ones that got hurt" at the end of the episode. Can someone fill me in as to what happened after
that and what the preview for next week showed?
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The Marquesan Godfather |
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Ben was one of the people hurt.
The preview looked like Sawyer/Kate crap, so not looking forward to next week. |
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cindidindi76 |
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Ben was looking rough. Much like he looked after the first time Sayid beat his ass, actually.
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Cheyenie |
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stacy1201 wrote: I wonder where the 316ers got the guns to shoot at the time skippers? Maybe it's the 316ers that have never been on the island. Caesar did take a gun when he was in that Dharma office. |
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stacy1201 |
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Cheyenie wrote:Yeah that's what I was thinking.. Definitely the newbies rather than the O6. I'm prescribing to the theory that Hurley, Kate, and Jack are in the 70's with Jin and Dharma (no clue where Sun and Sayid are....), and the rest of the 316ers (including Locke and Ben) are in present-3 years later-2007 time....Which happens to be where the time-skippers flashed to (or would it be "to where the time-skippers flashed?" or "to where the time-flashers skipped???") Not only that...The Oceanic 6 knew their friends were on the island somewhere, so they wouldn't just shoot at anyone. |
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PoChop |
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Caesar found a sawed off double-barrel shotgun. The shooting in the canoe scene was with rifles, it seemed to me. But doesn't Caeser and the chick who was excorting Sayid seem like they could be Widmore agents? Likewise they could be Ben agents.
It seemed to me that Ben killed Locke after he got the important information (about Ms. Hawking) he needed to get back to the island, and that he wanted Locke dead so there wouldn't be any competition for leader of the island once he got there. When he finally got around to talking to Ms. Hawking she's probably the one who told him that Locke needed to go back to the island even though he was dead. Ben may or may not have known at this point that Locke might come back to life on the island. |
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Megkris72 |
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Just noticed that in the opening minutes Caesar looks at the LIFE magazine that headlines "Color Pictures of Hydrogen Test", that darn bomb has to
have something to do with the island mysteries, it's playing way to prominent.
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Piranhahaha |
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I hope upthread noticed the still from Creature from the Black Lagoon, too.
I never know quite where to jump in on this board, so here's seem like a good enough place: This series is TOTALLY back on season 1 form. Amazing. I've never seen a stricken series recover so well. |
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PumaPeggy |
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I'm fairly certain Locke is not on the big island so to speak....but on the small island where Kate, Jack and Sawyer were held for awhile. I think Lapidus
spotted the runway that was being built and got the plane set down there.
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lynys |
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pamrose228 wrote:My theory is that Christian was actually murdered and Ben killed Locke to mirror the Oceanic flight. Gotta make things right, you know. |
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Hostile6 |
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Long post ahead...
I just watched it again. I'm kind of disappointed in Locke's meetings. They were all so quick. He's not a good salesman, that's for sure. The 06 had him pegged. A loney old man who wants to play fantasy. After watching the scene over, I think Ben planned on dumping Locke when the time was right, but didn't plan to murder him then and there. He was so desperate to save his life when he broke the door down. Locke is the only connection that Ben has to the island. If Locke dies with his knowledge of getting back to the island, Ben's chances of getting back greatly diminish. Re watch that scene when he starts strangling John. He looks upset, but i'll get to that after. The things Ben knows prior to mudering Locke, are... 1). Widmore has been in contact with John and is guiding him to bring everyone back. 2). John met with 4/5 (excluding Aaron) 06 members, all turned him down. 3). Knows Jack is teetering and is at the breaking point. All Ben needs is leverage on Jack. Jack is the one capable of leading everyone back. Ben has to push Jack to that breaking point. 4). Kate's affection for Aaron, leverage. During his meeting with Locke, he learned 5). Jin was alive and had given John proof. Except, John was to lie and say he was dead. Right there, Ben gets leverage on Sun. 6). Lastly, Ben learns that John was told (I'm assuming Ben knows the powers that be told John this info) to meet Hawking. Ben knows of her, but clearly not of her importance. When he finds out, Locke is disposable. He'll be the martyr Ben needs to convince Jack. During the scene where Ben is strangling Locke, look at his face. He looks like he's in pain. He looks like he's going to cry... And at the end of it, he stares in a "WTF did I just do" way. He sounded genuine and sad when he said goodbye to Locke. However as with Ben, the end justifies the means. The only time we've ever seen the REAL Ben without question, was when he turned the wheel. He was defeated. He lost. John was Jacob's champion. Ben apologized to Locke, and then tried to make ammends with Jacob by turning the wheel. Making that sacrifice. No doubt in my mind, that was Ben at his most honest. Killing Locke had to be done to progress his agenda. I think it was selfish on his end, but it wouldn't matter if everything came together. However, I think he knew that Locke would be OK if they could pull everyone back together and go to the island. The doubting Thomas story is my reasoning. While Jack wants answers about Hawking and his relationship with her (Ben avoids it because he can't tell Jack how he came to find out about her) he tells the story about Jesus ressurection. Not only was it a metaphor for belief, but for what was to come. Ben knows that island better then anyone. And he must know the Island wouldn't let John die for no good reason. If the island has plans for you, it has plans for you. Just me theory of the big event. You can't be morally ambiguious if you're always doing good or always doing bad. With Ben, there's always both good and bad in everything he does. |
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blur2k |
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PumaPeggy wrote:No else has pointed it out yet, but yes they did crash on the smaller island. The station that Caesar is rummaging through at the beginning is the Hydra which is on the smaller island. On another note, maybe I was just seeing things, but did anyone else clearly see some religious imagery when Ben was trying to talk Locke down from the table. Locke had his arms slightly outstretched while Ben was reaching upwards. |
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tigeranne |
Ben is a fucking turdpile, just as I suspected | ||
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I KNEW IT! I've been telling people for weeks that I think Ben really killed Locke! omg, it feels good to be right, while being completely spoiler
free!
I haven't even read this thread, in case someone mentions the previews for next week(I always change the channel immediately so as to not see/hear anything from the upcoming eppys). I also thought that Ben wrote the suicide note... but I was wrong. Man, after tonight, I really think W-I-D-M-O-R-E is the good guy! wow. speaking of the Widman, he was 17 in 1954. he should be something like 70 in 2008. He doesn't look a day over 60, if that. |
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scepticA |
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Widmore is bad. He was going to gas the whole island, kill everyone on it, remember? Yeah, nice guy.
Ben is bad also. Why must one of them be the good guys, or even less bad than the other? Ben is crazy evil, Widmore is wicked evil. I too wondered if they were on the smaller island - that view of distant island mountains when John was standing on the beach (with the guava lady) looked more like the view from the Hydra station of "the" island. And another thing - a couple of times there was a nighttime shot of the ocean, with the island silhouetted. And wasn't there a tiny light on the distant island shore? I hope it was deliberately put there, otherwise it was a rather bad anachronism. So - why did Christian tell John he had to die? ("That's why they call it sacrifice") Did the island know somehow that this was the only way he could get back? That Locke's death was a key to bringing the 6 back together? Did the island tell Ben to kill him? That was a pretty ominous statement, and the fact that it eventually came true... does it mean that Ben was doing the island's bidding, or did the island/jacob/christian simply know what was in store for John? That was a real Garden of Gesthemane scene, where John found out what was in store for him. Where are Rose and Bernard??? All in all, great episode. Fantastic even. |
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DelosWorld |
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blur2k wrote: Jesus said to her, "Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" (John 20:17, NRSV)
There could also be a Judas/Jesus angle here as well. Probably a million paintings that they could have alluded to in that scene. Of course it could be that the only reason kneeled down was to be able to quickly untie the extension cord so Locke couldn't hang himself. |
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SardonicallyIrrelevant |
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Man I'm torn. I need to go to bed, but now I really want to go back and watch 316 to see how it would have played in the order they were originally
intended to air.
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Vicconius |
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My god this show is good.
Just had to say that. |
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Antithesys |
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A couple folks have suggested that Ben stopped Locke because Locke couldn't return to the island and/or get resurrected if he committed suicide. This would
fit in very nicely with the oldest, most popular (among casual fans), and most denied theory: they're all dead.
My favorite part of the ep is that we now have a whole NEW batch of castaways. Part of me wishes the show would leave 815 alone for a season or two and start fresh with 316, let them stumble around for a while. It'd be nice to have people encounter secrets that we're actually in on for once. |
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assface killah |
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Anti... I agree with the "They are all dead" theory. Yes it has been knocked down quite a few times... however... I highly doubt that if the fans
were right that the writers would come out and confirm it. Perhaps leaving the island resurrected the O6 and they were not supposed to be resurrected. This
goes along with the "fate" theme.
Ironically this would also mean that the opposite has been true the whole time. GOING back to the island after dying doesn't mean that you have resurrected... but rather LEAVING the island means that you have. Hmmmm |
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Antithesys |
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(early 2003)
Creators: We've got a great new idea for a show. There's these people who crash on a crazy island, and the fans will spend all their energy coming up with theories about what's going on, and after six years you find out they've been dead the whole time. People will be blown away. ABC: Nifty. Knock yourselves out. (Comic Con 2004) Creators: We've got a great new show coming out in the fall. It's about these people who crash on a crazy island. Fans: Pshh. They're probably all dead or something. Creators: (under breath) Fuck! (loudly) Uh, yeah right, like it would be that easy. And before you ask, there's no time travel either. |
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