Kenny is also the only person who has yet to receive an OTT. Most people seem to have at least 2 OTTs, don't they?Don't forget Susie ....
JennaM, Amber and Todd are all winners with 2 or more OTT episode ratings.
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9RedWing19 |
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Kenny is also the only person who has yet to receive an OTT. Most people seem to have at least 2 OTTs, don't they?Don't forget Susie .... JennaM, Amber and Todd are all winners with 2 or more OTT episode ratings. |
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SilvahYoshum |
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ha, i don't seem to remember amber ever being OTT.
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BlakeB717 |
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Well to clear that up, the only thing I think is moronic is having Kenny not in people's top 2 =P Other than that I either disagree with those people or
don't like the cheerleading posts.
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BlakeB717 |
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Right! Susie. Poor girl, by insiders it seems like she's this CPN powerplayer. And personally, I think one of Todd's OTTs was ridiculous!
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cindidindi76 |
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SilvahYoshum wrote: Seriously! Anyone happen to remember offhand which eppy's she was OTT for? Maybe the swap episode? |
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BlakeB717 |
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Amber got 2. She got one when Jenna M quit (OTTP) and I remember her getting a ridiculous OTTN just before the finale (Tom's boot, the car episode)
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cindidindi76 |
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Thanks. I can't remember anything she did that episode, much less anything super-negative. |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Don't forget one other tradition. Whoever looks unbeatable at the end of Thursday night is on the Amanda road. Whoever looks like they couldn't
possibly could possibly.
Don't have much time today, present shopping for the kids. I do put stock in scenes of Kenny in the boat, going fishing with Bob, because enlightened personal growth, which it highlights, doesn't mesh with Sugar choosing to send him home over Matty. Why spend that valuable time on him, to end up being a tool? I don't buy it. I'd love to see Matty win as a fan, great guy. But Kenny makes much more sense. I bow to CL, I can see the sense in Sugar in the F3 better now. I still won't be completely stunned if she's not but now it's ever clear to me. I'll chalk that up to not having had bifocals until the last couple episodes. But I certainly see the point in Sugar's momentous decision. More important is the time spent defining Kenny. Something Matty just doesn't get. See y'all tonight I hope. Michael |
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RobVanStratus |
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BlakeB717 wrote:And I find it moronic for him to be people's top 2 for winners. I think Kenny's edit is very much like Cirie's in S12, and I stand by that. It's more of a story of growth from boy to man, not really a story of a winner. I don't recall any winner having a story of personal growth throughout the season, but I could be wrong. Stories of growth, like Cirie, are players that make it far in the game but don't win. And you've been pretty nasty to people for looking at anyone but Kenny as a winner, and ignoring their points. Much like mine, you've completely ignored my idea that Kenny's story is of personal growth, not winning. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Sugar's story is one of growth as well. She's growing and maturing to get over her father's death.
Matty's maturing. Kenny's maturing. Maybe the theme of the season is that you have to grow as a person in order to win. Hence why Bob has been the forever boyscout. Crystal has been the failed athlete. Susie has been the crazy bitch. All season long. |
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BlakeB717 |
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And you've been pretty nasty to people for looking at anyone but Kenny as a winner, and ignoring their points. Much like mine, you've completely ignored my idea that Kenny's story is of personal growth, not winning.You've repeated your point, and I haven't commented on it because I completely disagree. Sugar's story is one of growth as well. She's growing and maturing to get over her father's death.Exactly! Amazing post, Kitty. |
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Oowatanite |
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cindidindi76 wrote:If I recall correctly, there were only about seven votes cast and apparently four of them decided that Amber going on the drive-in date and winning a second car and then confessing this win to the others was OTTN. Go figure. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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I agree with Kitty's assessment regarding that growth is important for this season. I do have a random comment on
"growing up" in relation to biblical themes... and getting real, my very own personal biblical fact checker,
feel free to correct me if I've gotten my paraphrasing wrong...
somewhere in the bible, there is a comment on growing up from a child to an adult, that one must leave behind their childhood things in order to be able to embrace moving forward into adulthood. So, if this is true... those with a personal growth story... who has demonstrated this and who has not? Has Sugar? I think so, she was unable to speak at her father's funeral, and has now grown up enough to be able to lay her father to rest and to speak openly about her feelings. As a child, she was unable to deal with her grief and unable to let go. As an adult, she has been able to move past that need and has been able to lay her father to rest. Has Matty? I think so, he acknowledges that he has been afraid of growing, and has now learned and realizes that he is ready to be a man, and actually says this "It's time for me to grow-up now". He proposes / commits to marriage and fatherhood. He has moved from being self-centred (like a child) to a life-long commitment (as an adult). Has Ken? I'm not so sure... while he is certainly more outgoing and self-sufficient and less dependent, he is still behaving childlike or adolescent and very ego-centric, instead of enjoying time with his loved one, he bombards her with strategy (his was the only family segment that was all about him). The expression on his sister's face clearly said "WTF.... aren't you gonna ask about home, or something?" Instead Ken tells her ..."they all love me" ... "I saved their asses" ... "I took out the 5 biggest bullies" ... "I'm the best strategist ever". Further to this, his statements are over-inflated, the same way that a child would exaggerate a story. For example, by my count, Ken can lay claim to the Charlie vote (who is not the biggest bully!!) and maybe Ace (he had a hand in it, but Sugar is the one who came up with the plan and execution of it). Crystal and Susie are the ones who saved Ken's butt by getting rid of Marcus, and Randy was all Sugar & Bob. I wouldn't count Michelle, Gillian or Jacquie as bullies and Kelly was Ken's ally (so was Michelle). GC quit. Also - I cannot for the life of my recall where Ken saved Crystal's butt, and saving Sugar is dubious at best.... Matty told her (and us!) that Ace would not have voted for her. In addition to this very self-centered and adolescent thinking pattern, he still refers to himself as a "gamer", a title that in itself is very child-like (ie, children play games), and a profession that is viewed by others as "child-like." In this past episode, we saw both Sugar and Matty make moves towards adulthood by connecting to someone outside of their self and making an adult decisions about their future. In Ken's family moment, he doesn't connect with his sister, nor does he acknowledge that while he knows he is "here" he wants to be "over there" and he makes no moves or commitments to do so. I may be off base here... but for me, this is the problem with Ken's edit.... the juxtaposition of Ken to Sugar & Matty's... and even Bob's... family visit was so jarring to me. Only Kenny is shown to have a strategy session with his loved one. And it's not even a strategy session, is more like a bragging session. "Look at me, Look at me." Even in China... Todd had a nice moment with his loved one, he was shown to be upset when he heard his sister lost her baby. This episode - for me - tells me that Ken is coming up short. He is being set up for a fall. |
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getting real |
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Phoenix1269 wrote:Right back at ya, Phoenix. Yes, you can't blame industry insiders for their little in-jokes. Some of the extraneous stuff encoded onto DVDs are legendary. That's where I disagree with Wallduck. The stories and the themes that are being crafted are just as important as how they edit individual characters. As Phoenix suggests, one could see very early that China was about strategic dominance and the Art of War - and Todd. And, that because of the racial division issue, Cook Islands was going to be, if at all possible, edited exactly the way it was edited, and to tell the story it told. More of this in the off-season. |
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getting real |
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Great analysis about personal growth as it relates to those who are left, Phoenix.
If anything, Kenny is being shown to be regressing, lol. From memory, his regression began with the rat imagery. As you suggest, being shown to be focusing on strategy is normally a good thing but usually not during family visits (eg. Terry) and certainly not in a season such as this. One of the most damning aspects of Kenny's edit, from this perspective, is showing him deliberately killing off Charlie for reasons not to do with the game but for his own personal gratification. They could've just reported the reality of what happened (ie. him telling the others that Charlie had to go because he was too smart and too strong) but, instead, went out of their way to show Kenny admitting to us that his motives were base and petty. Not very indicative of personal growth at all. |
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Former Lurker 2 |
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Phoenix1269 wrote: Here is the quote from the King James version, I Corinthians 13:11: "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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See, that's why I think Ken looks the best right now. Sugar and Matty's growth story arcs peaked this episode with Matty proposing and Sugar spreading
her father's ashes. Ken consistently gets scenes of him growing and maturing, but it's not an overnight thing. He still has some moments of
immaturity. That's because his story cannot end until he fully reaches maturity, which I think comes with him winning the game.
Also, given just how ignored Susie has been and how completely illogical it would be for her to be voted out under any circumstance, something tells me she either gets voted out in a tie this week (after drawing a purple rock) or she gets voted out in a tie after the non-Kenny/Crystal member of the final four wins immunity. |
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Former Lurker 2 |
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I don't think anyone should ignore the fact that Crystal's edit has changed for the better since the merge, and Kenny's has changed for the worse.
Susie has been pretty much invisible. I think Matty's apex was his proposal to his girlfriend. It is interesting to me that they didn't show anything
to indicate that Matty either felt threatened or safe before the last vote -- no ironic comments, premonitions, nothing to heighten the suspense about whether
he would actually go. They usually do that before a vote, even if the clips are unrelated, and are used as misdirection. However, the emerging edit of Ken
could be designed to foreshadow his demise. In the recap episode, they seemed to give Crystal more credit than Ken for the success of their alliance. Why?
Before that it appeared that Ken was getting the credit, although Crystal was the one who really was responsible for Marcus's boot. Perhaps they were
hiding her strategy and focusing on their transformation story about Kenny. Now, Kenny tries a move to get credit for getting rid of a threat, Matty, and
fails.
Is Kenny a mastermind? I don't think so. I have changed my opinion about his moves. When Bob and Corinne approached Kenny about voting for Matty, he should have asked himself why they needed four votes if Corinne had a real hidden idol and planned to play it at the next TC. After all, if Corinne had a real idol, all she had to do was play the idol WITHOUT letting anyone else know she had it. Everyone would vote for her, except she and Bob would vote for Matty, and voila, Matty is gone. It was far riskier for her to approach Kenny about voting with them, because they could boot someone else other than Matty, and she would have to waste the idol anyway to be safe, so why would she take that risk? The only explanation is that (a) she doesn't have a real idol and needs four votes (remember, she specifically wanted Kenny to get another vote), and (b) if Kenny and Crystal betray their alliance by voting out Matty, it gives Bob and Corinne a means of breaking the alliance and recruiting Susie and Sugar to their side, and then Kenny is next out if he doesn't win immunity. Kenny failed to follow through this analysis, to his peril. Of course, Corinne's real plan didn't work because the idol was a fake, and Crystal voted for Corinne, but Kenny didn't know that. Furthermore, Kenny got greedy and wanted Crystal to vote for Corinne. Why? So at the final TC, up against Crystal, he can argue that he was the one who blindsided Matty, not Crystal. As it turns out, that is probably going to come back to bite him. Plus, Crystal has an out. She didn't vote for Matty. Now, whether she has sense enough to use it to her advantage, I have no idea. I just don't see how Kenny can pull out of this mess, but I will say this. If he manages to avoid being booted without winning immunity, he deserves to win, which, ironically, will put an even bigger target on his back right through to the end. ' |
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JFRX |
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Unduli Clone said:
I posted sometime after Marcus' boot that the reason he got such an odd edit is because he was the lone vote in a F3 tie. I think that's why this season is so bizarre, because we're going to have a 3-3-1 tie. That's my winner prediction.As much as a 3-3-1 tie to be broken somehow (maybe the lone vote would need to revote?) at the live vote reveal next Sunday would undermine the principles of Edgic, it may explain the many strange and subjective character edits in this season. If the editors themselves do not know who is going to win, they would need to show the audience throughout the season two sies of the two finalists receiving 3 votes at Final Tribal Council. The audience would need to understand why the winner won (i.e. they would both require winner's edits). However, the viewers would also need to understand why the runner-up lost. So both of these characters would need to have major pros and cons within their respective edits so that they could coceivably win the game or lose to the other. This would explain the editors' treatment of Kenny- He either wins because he 'grew up' and played some great stragety late in the game (he received credit for getting rid of Marcus when we saw that Crystal did all the work and for his astuteness in picking Charlie to go home at the merge). Or he loses because he became arrogant and wasn't able to make up for his ealy mistakes (he receives portions of Fang's negativity, is repetitively questioned for choosing Kelly in episode 3, and his descent into arrogance at shown with the rat imagery). As a finalist either way, he would receive decent develpment and attention (termite scene with Michelle) and would be the subject of ambiguous sequences (the boat scene makes sense if he wins- struggling but finding his way eventually - or loses - really just going round in circles). Similarly, other players have been edited in two different ways: If Matty won, his consistent presence and positivity over the season even in the Fang 'ghetto', his ability to 'dig deep' and his appreciation for the game and the location would explain his ability to win jury votes at the Final Tribal Council. However, it would be easy to understand a Matty loss based on his single midnedness in thinking about his girlfriend and Gabon instead of thinking ahead in the game and strategising like Kenny, and Crystal. If Crystal were to lose, viewers could point to her OTTness and negativity in the first half of the season, especially in the challenges and at tribal council. However, a Crystal win would still be understood based on her cool-down after the merge, her strategy in booting Marcus (and Corinne?) and her 'intentional' hiding her strength both physically in the challenges, and strategically, behind Kenny. Even Sugar has an inconsistent edit- sometimes an OTT sweetheart, sometimes an innocent learning to play the game and growing from the experience, and sometimes an immature girl acting at the expense of others. Despite her positivity, it would be easy to understand why a jury would vote against her. However, if she were to win, the viewer can still justify her winning based on her edited perseverance, likeability and growth. If she won votes because of her UTR but deadly strategy, the edit would have justified this win and have set it up from early on. All of the characters being discussed as potential winners (even the less likely ones) have ambiguous edits- is this due to a tie at the end of the game, or is it just excessive doubt that came earlier in the season than usual? |
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ncassaro |
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In one of Corinne's interviews, she mentioned that she didn't figure out that Kenny and Crystal were a solid pair. However, she said that Sugar and
Crystal were attached at the hip, a pair we haven't really seen. We have a hidden pair, folks.
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