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 Ozzmanda Fan234 |
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Posts: 407 (07/19/08 6:03 AM) |
Jonathan vs. Everyone else in Cook Islands <3 <3 <3 (Classic rivalry) (Main rivalry: Flica Flame) Courtney vs. Jean-Robert (a.k.a. The "Susan Lucci" of Tribal Council) <3 <3 <3 Scout/Twila vs. Eliza <3 <3 <3 Tom vs. Ian <3 <3 <3
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kishuu |
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Posts: 140 (07/19/08 7:20 AM) |
I doubt Ozzy vs Parvati will show up... it was rather a short term thing and we didn't see much till like, till the finale.
I support Crazy Dave vs Zhan Hu though =) |
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craig |
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Posts: 13481 (07/19/08 2:19 PM) Registered User |
Ozzy vs Parv would only make a list of "jury rivalries" - players who only became rivals when one booted the other, culminating in a confrontation at final TC. It's one of the best, along with Brian vs Helen and Steph vs Judd |
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tullfan2 |
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Posts: 2727 (07/19/08 2:24 PM) Registered User |
craig wrote: I would think that Sue vs. Kelly, Rob vs. Lex, Rob vs. Tom and Eliza vs. Twila were better than Steph vs. Judd. Too bad, Kim J. won the Final IC in Africa because we missed out on Kelly G. vs. Lex which would have been great. |
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JaMalle |
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Posts: 4043 (07/19/08 2:38 PM) Registered User |
Helen vs Brian at FTC was gold. She ripped into him and I liked it.
Alex vs Cassandra at FTC? Anyway Craig, I love this thread. |
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 Bobby Jon goes apeshit |
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Posts: 1308 (07/19/08 3:48 PM) |
 VS 
Damn it was good. |
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finishthemoff |
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Posts: 9219 (07/19/08 3:50 PM) Registered user |
Dre have no business in being that alliance. Oh why didn't they keep Rocky?
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craig |
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Posts: 13483 (07/19/08 8:50 PM) Registered User |
Earl was a winner who seemed above all rivalries. Dreamz and Cassie did the dirty work to destroy the Horseman and then Yao-man. They were perceived as Lill
2.0 and Sundra 2,0 by most of the jury.
We weren't shown what Alex\Ed did to piss Dreamz and Cassie off. The big scene was Stacey vs Dreamz over making coffee. I've always figured there was a black alliance agenda that editing didn't want to play up. Lisi got in her dig with the einy meany miny mo rhyme, and by substituting "liar" for the n-word, managed to call them liars and imply a racial slur at once. One lesson of Fiji - you don't need white people to have racism and racial hostility. For such a nasty season, I didn't find the rivalries that compelling. Hey everyone, let's hear it to for Lisi vs Dreamz! |
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SwineForkbeard |
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Posts: 1577 (07/20/08 1:23 AM) I need a hobby |
craig wrote: Where's Ravu Rules when you need him? He'd have a field day with that. Even if racial solidarity was a binding element of that alliance, how is
that any worse than the women having an alliance in Vanuatu and Micronesia? If that's what happened, I'm sure they didn't do it for its own sake.
Getting people to be loyal to you because of demographic similarities happens all the time, and has more to do with self-interest and getting yourself further
in the game than with making a political statement. Case in point: when Dreamz realized he had nothing to gain from having Anthony on his side, he cut him
loose. Had the final 3 in Cook Islands been Adam, Parvati, and Candice, I doubt that would have bothered you, nor aroused suspicions of racial hostility.
This looks more to me like an insecure white person who is projecting that insecurity onto others because he sees something threatening about black people
outplaying white people. Even if you don't give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was all just a black thang, you should blame everybody else
for not realizing that there was a black alliance and doing something about it. There's no denying that Cassandra and Dreamz were the ideal opponents for
Earl to take to the end, and I think it's a little unfair to jump to conclusions if he didn't go out of his way to make other plans just to avoid the
appearance of overt racial preference. He voted out Yau-Man because he knew he couldn't beat him, not because he wasn't black. As for Cassandra and
Dreamz, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they would have had enough sense to vote out Earl had they known it would be a final 3.
Last Edited By: SwineForkbeard
07/20/08 2:34 AM.
Edited 2 times.
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JaMalle |
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Posts: 4048 (07/20/08 2:17 AM) Registered User |
Hmm, not to totally agree with Swine, but I did find that post a tad ridic Craig... lol
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Ozzmanda Fan234 |
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Posts: 418 (07/20/08 5:56 AM) |
Earl vs. 4 Horseman Alliance <3 <3 <3
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WylDawg |
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Posts: 15892 (07/20/08 1:52 PM) Registered user |
I do think that Earl's desire to dump a loyal, trustworthy Boo and have him replaced with a sociopathic, wildcard, changes-his-mind-on-a-dime Dreamz did
somewhat smack of racism.
That being said, Earl is still one my favo players ever, so nobody can accuse me of inventing reasons to diss him. |
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Quiddity |
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Posts: 3119 (07/20/08 2:10 PM) Registered User |
Dreamz was the ultra goat. While Boo hardly deserved a ton of respect from the jury, he certainly would have earned more than Dreamz.
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Dictatorship |
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Posts: 2750 (07/20/08 2:15 PM) |
Plus, it makes since for Earl to go with Dreamz (and Cassandra) because they were also playing the game by race.
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seltzer3 |
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Posts: 885 (07/20/08 3:45 PM) Registered User |
You know, i'm somewhat curious about what would happen if Michelle survived the twist? Would she be the first one to go from her alliance?
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craig |
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Posts: 13486 (07/20/08 4:54 PM) Registered User |
My point was about Lisa and Dreamz, a Hispanic and a Black. Dreamz brought up race in ep.1 (who is white around here?) Lisi made the comment about Lilianna
having an evil Mexican mind.
If Dreamz had any insight he knew he couldn't beat Yao-man or Earl. So why vote out the guy who gave you the $60,000 truck? Looks to me like his disinterested desire to have another black win trumped any feelings of gratitude or honesty. I'm not especially bothered by Earl and Cassie, except to make the point that with 5-5-5-5 casting the producers should expect racial solidarity to effect the endgame. And if there was a race-based alliance, don't try to paper it over in editing with multicultural rainbows. Even if racial solidarity was a binding element of that alliance, how is that any worse than the women having an alliance in Vanuatu and Micronesia? If that's what happened, I'm sure they didn't do it for its own sake. Getting people to be loyal to you because of demographic similarities happens all the time, and has more to do with self-interest and getting yourself further in the game than with making a political statement. Case in point: when Dreamz realized he had nothing to gain from having Anthony on his side, he cut him loose. Had the final 3 in Cook Islands been Adam, Parvati, and Candice, I doubt that would have bothered you, nor aroused suspicions of racial hostility. Gender-based alliances are usually open about the fact, and players like Twila, Scout (S9), Caryn (S10), and Diane (BB5) have thwarted woman's alliances for their own game reasons. I recall that Dreamz was against the Anthony boot, but voted with the Hispanc majority. There was a Double Standard for whites as compared to other races (especially blacks) in the race seasons. Nate caught grief as a sellout for working with the whites on Raro (rather than the weak black chciks who ganged up on the guys ep.1). Poor Nate. There was pruesure to "represent" and do his people proud. On the other hand, it's politically correct to jump on whites for working together with cries of racism, and political incorrect to call Jonathan a race traitor. I understand such attitudes in a society where whites are the majority and have the disproportionate power. But in S13 and S14 there were no "majority" or "minorities" (except in Fiji the whites were down one because Melissa quit preshow). |
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seltzer3 |
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Posts: 886 (07/20/08 4:58 PM) Registered User |
Didn't Dreamz try to get rid of Cassandra though? I recall in episode 4...he automatically offered both Cassandra and Lisi to get the boot (because they
were the weakest links). Yes he did end up voting for Lilliana...but it looked like because he was overruled.
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seltzer3 |
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Posts: 886 (07/20/08 4:58 PM) Registered User |
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craig |
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Posts: 13487 (07/20/08 5:50 PM) Registered User |
I think Dreamz wanted Lisi gone, since they hated each other. But the 2 blacks were outsiders, so he preferred they target Cassie over him.
Probaby Boo and Stcy would be targeted before her. At F5 she'd expect to be kept over Dreamz. but the 3 blacks would control the vote. I've heard she was closer to Earl than YM, so I can't see her organizing a coup, especially since her and Stacy were rivals. The onlyy question is, would Earl be close enough to Michelle to keep her over Dreamz at F5 (with YM immune). |
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SwineForkbeard |
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Posts: 1580 (07/20/08 6:28 PM) I need a hobby |
craig wrote: I think it's a stretch to hold up Lisi as an example of non-white racism. They seemed to be fudging a bit by including her in the Hispanic quota for
that cast, just because she has a Cuban grandfather or something. Unless you knew about that, she would come across as ethnically and culturally white.
"Hispanic" is an artificial construct that doesn't have anything to do with race per se, since most people in Latin America are multiracial and
don't fit into neat little boxes, but Hispanics can be white or any other race. As for Dreamz's comments, I didn't see them as necessarily racist,
he just seemed like a loose cannon who was not well socialized and had an underdeveloped sense of propiety.
If Dreamz had any insight he knew he couldn't beat Yao-man or Earl. So why vote out the guy who gave you the $60,000 truck? Looks to me like his disinterested desire to have another black win trumped any feelings of gratitude or honesty. Perhaps, but let's be fair here. If blacks are under such social pressure to stick together as you claim, then Dreamz was damned if he did and damned
if he didn't. As far as putting race above "feelings of gratitude," Dreamz wasn't stupid and saw Yau-Man's deal for what it was: a
trap. It was a calculated game move, not a selfless act of generosity. A true test of Dreamz's motives would have been whether he would have chosen Earl
over Stacy had she not been taken out by the idol. And I seriously doubt that Dreamz and Cassandra would have been willing to forfeit any chance they had of
winning just to have an all black final 3.
There was a Double Standard for whites as compared to other races (especially blacks) in the race seasons. Nate caught grief as a sellout for working with the whites on Raro (rather than the weak black chciks who ganged up on the guys ep.1). Poor Nate. There was pruesure to "represent" and do his people proud. On the other hand, it's politically correct to jump on whites for working together with cries of racism, and political incorrect to call Jonathan a race traitor. That's sounds like what Adam posted here, but I think he was just being a sore loser. Very little of what took place on the show supported that
supposed double standard. The minorities crossed racial lines as much if not more than the whites did. The Hispanics sold out Billy. Yul and Becky sold out
Cao Boi after he tried to sell out Becky. Nate and Rebecca sold out Stephannie, Nate sold out Rebecca, and Sundra sold out Nate. Cristina sold out J. P.
Jenny sold out Brad after he had tried to sell out her. There were few people on that season who weren't race traitors at one time or another, so it looks
like Adam was making excuses and imagining himself a victim of political correctness when the simple fact was that he and his allies were outplayed.
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