PT to his credit can do it in under 5000 words though :P
0 Kudo
Winner Analysis
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 Quiddity |
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Posts: 3106 (07/18/08 6:46 PM) Registered User |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 4085 (07/18/08 7:23 PM) Registered user |
Hes ome pretty close though
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7neves7 |
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Posts: 2680 (07/18/08 9:57 PM) Registered User |
yay! i am still on the hater list <3
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pauldeman |
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Posts: 4 (07/24/08 1:54 PM) |
Have not read through the complete thread but what i've read of your analysis has been immensely enjoyable.
Am a fan of CI and have found Adam's posting here on his own participation engaging and insightful. Kudos as well to the clarity of your own arguments on issues related to ethnicity. Thanks for keeping the debate lively |
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 Us Kids Know |
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Posts: 7234 (07/24/08 8:40 PM) Registered user
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Sorry, I still agree with Dictatorship's post at the top of the page. I really don't care about you. Though I do find your use of an internet enemies list to be mind-numbingly pathetic. I'm pretty sure I told you your opinions were stupid, like, once.
Last Edited By: Us Kids Know
07/24/08 9:04 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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mfrimley |
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Posts: 738 (07/24/08 9:11 PM) |
PRECARIOUS RELATIONSHIPS
Well, at least I've made the top of one of his lists, even if being tied with SwineForkbeard is a dubious distinction.
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Quiddity |
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Posts: 3201 (07/25/08 3:57 PM) Registered User |
Let's all laugh at Ravu!
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 4132 (07/26/08 11:53 AM) Registered user |
One thing you can say though, you haven't managed to outdebate him. You may disagree with him, I sure do, but noone here can say they have outdebated him.
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mfrimley |
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Posts: 740 (07/26/08 3:20 PM) |
I agree, but is there anybody who has devoted more time and energy into microanalyzing such a niche topic as this? Would anybody here admit to watching every Survivor episode like 50 times? He's probably the world's foremost authority on this. It would be like trying to outdebate John Hinckley on the topic of Jodie Foster. Even though people have routinely ranked the winners in the past, most of them never put much thought into it. I mean, if Ravu were a scientist and approached his work with the same kind of passion, he'd probably have found the cure for cancer by now. |
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Quiddity |
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Posts: 3212 (07/26/08 5:09 PM) Registered User |
Ravu's strategy seems to be to type up essays that are so ridiculously long and complicated that the other person eventually just runs out of steam and
gives up. And going by that route, he's certainly the winner. If the object is to frustrate your opponent so much that they quit the debate, he's
certainly been able to beat me there multiple times. No one can type up an absurdly long essay post like him. But the overall substance of his points, like
that anyone who dislikes Cook Islands is racist, that prior winners should be judged heavily based on their performance on All Stars, and the overall jist of
things, which is really just a complicated way for him to put his favorite Yul as the #1 all time fail. Sorry, they do. I've seen people post a 500 word
single post in a 'Rank the Winners' thread that are more legitimate to me than Ravu's 3200 post thread.
ETA: BTW, those newbs who pop in to post a sentence or two about how interesting this thread is, could you please explain exactly why? Not that I don't believe that you're legitimate posters, but when someone pops in with this thread who I've never seen before who has 5 or 6 posts and says little more than "Ravu actually does rule!" one wonders whether they're simply ghosties of Ravu or one of his supporters. I'd love to hear your side of things if you are an actual real person, as this thread is largely Ravu vs. everyone else when it comes to the actual debating :P If you're on his side what better way to support him than to post something with more substance?
Last Edited By: Quiddity
07/26/08 5:15 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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mfrimley |
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Posts: 744 (07/26/08 6:25 PM) |
I think the substance of his points, with a few exceptions, is pretty sound and ably defended. He's a smart dude and has put a ton of thought into this,
much as many of you hate to admit it. In a way, the more aggressive and heated your reactions are to his posts, the more gravitas you lend to his list. Tons
of people have posted lists ranking the winners, yet his list is the one that causes the most controversy by far and leads to the most vicious geek fights.
Why do people act as if they have a stake in where their pet winners rank unless they consider Ravu's list to be the most definitive? If his reasoning is
flawed, then it shouldn't be a big deal where he decides to rank people. Like I said, this is a niche topic. Is it really worth fighting about, when you
think about it? I admit I sometimes let it go if I disagree with something he says if I'm not in the mood for a war of attrition, but the people who
foment board wars over a winner's list usually end up looking worse than he does.
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 4140 (07/26/08 6:39 PM) Registered user |
Well I agree with you wholeheartedly Mr Frimly, but I think the intensity in this thread, and the effort Ravu puts into it(or maybe none at all, maybe WE have
the problem for not thinking objectivly enough) is admirable. You could say hes taken a geeky internet debate, and transformed it into an
intelligent/scientific speculative investigation. So far, his philisophical frame of reference has held up. I don't have a frame of reference in which to
judge winners, which is why I come off more amateurish then him, but thats the beauty of this debate, you don't need one. All you need are good debating
skills and a clear mind. I have my preferences(I still think Brian Heidik is the best winner), but now when I throw that out, I must defend it. Its a learning
process. This is a great thread because it is actually making smarter, or rather, more sophisticated. I think I have a rather broad range of knowledge, but it
is scattered, now when it comes to Survivor, I have to organize it to be coherent.
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mfrimley |
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Posts: 745 (07/26/08 7:01 PM) |
You could say hes taken a geeky internet debate, and transformed it into an intelligent/scientific speculative investigation.Well you could say that, but let's not get carried away and come off sounding like sycophant ghosties. I think it should remain a geeky internet debate, since to make a doctoral dissertation over something so trivial is kind of a waste, IMO. Nor is it worth attracting the rancor of dissenting geeks. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 4141 (07/26/08 8:08 PM) Registered user |
Yeah, a dissertion of something with someone who is talented would be better spent on something more meaningful then winners rankings. I do appeciate it
though, why go half assed when we can make real progress? I'm not like Ravu, I do enjoy fun casts, thats why I don't like CI, but I can have a fun
Survivor watching experiance and try to objectfuly analyse the castaways. This isn't an exact science, so there is plenty of room for Ravu to be wrong. I
don't know why people are so vengeful towards him.
Last Edited By: Dr Will Hatch two point oh
07/26/08 8:19 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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sweEt Mauritius |
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Posts: 820 (07/29/08 5:25 PM) Registered user |
mfrimley wrote: There is a difference between sound and ably defended. Yeah, the substance of his posts are ably defended in that he doesn't give up when someone challenges a viewpoint of his or his methods and criteria for determining his ranking. However, many of his arguments and defenses are not sound, they are far from it. The reasons why they aren't have been brought up a million times, but there's always some reason why the objective logic that almost everyone else in the thread understands doesn't apply to certain winners and seasons (guess which ones). I have no problem admitting that he put a ton of thought into it, and I don't know why I should. I just have no respect for it. Despite all the thought and hard work, it just comes off as some stupid attempt to glorify Yul. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 4174 (07/29/08 5:29 PM) Registered user |
I hate to be this threads lapdog while Ravus out of town, you could argue that we ALL you use circular clogic in this thread, we're trying to defend our
rankings right?
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adam gentry |
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Posts: 98 (07/30/08 7:44 AM) |
pauldeman wrote: Well thank you for the comment there pauldeman. Even though I should know better since this site is consumed with sarcism, especially regarding non-fan favorites like myself (lol), I will go ahead and lay out my appreciative response anyway. Hello RavuRules, hope my buddy is doing well. I am still not up to a whole lot. It is freakin crazy but I am actually STILL on crutches and due for another surgery soon... I hope everyone else is doing great as well. Take care. ACG |
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pauldeman |
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Posts: 6 (08/01/08 4:16 PM) |
Hi Adam Good to see that ur still check in every so ofte. Really sorry to hear that ur still having issues with ur foot. Hope the next time is the charm so that u'll be able to return to a semblance of activity pre-CI. I'm sure most would share this sentiment, even the cynical folks out there… I may be one of the few on this board who cannot get enough of CI so I am definitely appreciative of ur perspective. My attitude toward the edited version of you and the Raro kids has become more nuanced as a result of reading through ur posts. It has definitely made the season more enjoyable since I've tried to watch the season without blindly buying into the narrative arch of Jon/Yul. More than anything else, any additional information that is not pure spin (ala Nate and to a less extent Jenny) just adds joy to what is my favorite season. Yul is right, this was a very likeable cast. A good example of why I've been willing to buy this is ur post on booting JP and ur rational about being ambiguous about having the Idol. From the show both of these just seemed to strengthen the narrative pt of view as being clueless and not strategic. I suppose if they had shown more of this calculated aspect of ur game playing, ur attempt to get rid of the ido at F5 would not have seemed so out of character for the viewer who had though of u as the "adumb" with the goofy smile and occasional streak of verbal meanness (the Cristina eps). I personally though Jenny was equally "bad" and according to Brad in his Survivor Live interview it was one of the reasons why he voted for her… Ditto to the viewer's surprise about u winning the math IC (I enjoyed ur explanation on this as well) and coming so close to Ozzy in the last puzzle IC. The intellectually competent and game playing sides of u was definitely overshadowed by the showmance. I'm a big fan of Yul so I put a great deal of stock into what he has to say. That is perhaps why I was initially baffled by the many good things he had to say about u during the final few episodes as well as his vote for u at the TC. Granted, he is extremely diplomatic but he seemed genuine and direct as opposed to what he had to say about say Cao Boi. His post game interviews stressed that u are a standup kind of guy and I think this comes across very well even if some may not always like ur delivery.
When or if inclined, I would love to read ur responses to the following questions. They
are not in line with the intellectual rigor of this thread but hey...
1) Exile Island and the Immunity Idol: Your days on EI were the roughest of all the 4 players sent there. We saw some of it various episodes as well as the review episode. Yul mentioned in a clip that he was "lucky" to find it and that had he not found it the next person would have. Did u ever dig in the right spot? From the review clip it seemed u were too close to the mast relative to Yul. Do u think u would have found it were u in Yul's place? If so would u have shared it with someone else on ur tribe or with Candice post merge? 2) Why did u guys continue to allow Rebecca to swim in the IC? Did the tribe strategize about who would participate in the IC and RC? In the rose compass challenge why were u and Candice digging instead of Rebecca？ When asked in the Survivor Live int I think Jenny said something to the effect of "why would I do that" Rebecca was strong mentally etc we want her to have the experience etc…. This still does not make sense to me. Had u guys won perhaps her experiences would have been extended. 3) Prior to the merge who did you see as the biggest threat from a strategic pt of view?
5) Cristina mentioned in an interview that Yul was the only one to offer her water after the wrestling challenge. Was she being hyper-sensitive or was there a shortage of bottled water at the challenge? 6) I think u mentioned in ur day after interview that you mentioned that you would have won had u been in the final 3. I think Yul has also said that was the worst case scenario from his perspective b/c of the number of Raro on the jury. Post Nate boot this would have been extremely diff unless u swept the ICS. If this hypothetical became a reality and u were in the final 3 with Yul and either Becky/Sundra whose votes would you have had? Would they been Nate, Parvati, Candice, Reb and Jenny? What would have been ur argument? Conversely, say that the Raro did make it to the final four who would have been the final boot? And what would ur argument have been at the final tribal? 7) Ur question to Ozzy at the final TC was to diss the other two. Was that ur question to Yul and Becky as well? If so, what were their respective replies? (Again this snippet seemed to confirm the bully character we were expected to accept). Interestingly, Yul's take on this was simply that you were just tired of the Aitu 4 playing nice at TC. 8) You used the word "boring" ad nauseum at the TCs. Had u been in the shoes of Aitu4 how would you have addressed Jeff's questions without sounding "boring"?8) Lastly, have u had any cravings for Coconuts, pandanus crab, and fish since CI?
Thx Adam, best of health |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
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Posts: 4204 (08/01/08 7:29 PM) Registered user |
Getting off topic a bit, the reason I don't enjoy CI has nothing th do with the people, I just hate the structure of it. I prefer smaller casts, better
editing and less twists. However, they did contribute to Yul being considered number 1(because it tests the mettle of the castaways mre thoroughly), so I guess
the "dark age" of Survivor may have had some benifits
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RavuRules |
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Posts: 1764 (08/13/08 9:04 AM) Registered user |
Well thank you for the comment there pauldeman. Even though I should know better since this site is consumed with sarcism, especially regarding non-fan favorites like myself (lol), I will go ahead and lay out my appreciative response anyway. Hey Adam! Great to hear from you again. Dang dawg sorry to hear you're still on crutches. That's wack. I'm surprised you have such a long-term injury considering it never seemed like you got badly injured on TV. I hope you recover from your injury soon and that you're doing well. I think I saw you briefly at the BB9 reunion on TV haha. Thanks for dropping by again man! Always a pleasure |
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