5/29/08 S4 Finale "There's No Place Like Home, Parts 2 & 3"

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PoChop		#601	[-]
Posts: 1602 (06/02/08 9:27 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Using my methodology the rope ends up in Tunisia. It's a lot easier to get a new rope than it is to obtain and train the damn polar bears.
pussycow		#602	[-]
Posts: 2327 (06/02/08 10:04 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	GodIsAnAtheist wrote: Goosehead wrote: Holy shit, forget about the polar bears. Seriously. I have no clue why they are being discussed in such heavy detail, with other more important questions posed and unanswered. phantom is dedicated to his theory, man! I just said I didn't buy it yet. Phantom, as for the wtf factor, yeah the bear skeleton showing up in Tunisia and Ben popping out in Tunisia after using the FDW is certainly a big coincidence and I suppose it could point to the bears being used to turn the wheel. And maybe they are the ones turning the wheel. I just think it's dumb to get polar bears to turn a wheel just cos it's cold where the wheel is. And, I don't like jumping to conclusions with Lost :) I only do that with my Jump To Conclusions mat.
chidelta	Polar opposites	#603	[-]
Posts: 1085 (06/02/08 1:00 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Okay, it's nice that people are still debating some of the finer points of the finale, but I'd like to try to settle the current polar bear dispute. First, very few things are "obvious" on this show. That's the appeal for some of us, that we are not given the whole story, and that there are often multiple plausible explanations for what we see. That being said, why can't both phantom and his critics be partly right? A polar bear was once used to turn the wheel (whether by rope, or harness, or pully or by direct pulling/pushing on the spokes), perhaps on an occasion when the island had to be moved but noone wanted to be the person jettisoned off the island, and it went poof into the desert where it died and decomposed in the sand and was later found by Charlotte. But, polar bears were not always used to turn the wheel, and were not on the island just for that purpose. There are no absolute answers here. Just because it's cold doesn't mean that polar bears were needed down in that tunnel, nor does the fact that the wheel only turned halfway before you hit the wall mean that polar bears could not have been used. That Halliwax's jacket was in the locker doesn't have to mean that he turned the wheel often (he could have been studying the wheel's properties). And, the fact that Ben blew up the pod to access the tunnel doesn't necessarily mean that it was the only entrance to the tunnel. It simply means it was the entrance that Ben used on that occasion (maybe the other one is blocked by that pissed off polar bear). There is usually a back way (remember the Swan hatch). I hope everyone is laughing as much as I am that there is a much too serious debate about whether or not it makes logical sense for a polar bear to be turning an ancient wheel that can move an entire island and its immediate surroundings in time and space. If not, you guys need to go have a stiff drink, or get laid (or both).
PoChop		#604	[-]
Posts: 1604 (06/02/08 1:08 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	What we really need is a separate donkey wheel thread! Another thing that struck me as being odd was that goofy block wall built to block off the back half of the donkey wheel. It looks rather haphazardly built and that at some point in time whatever turned the wheel might have actually walked around in a complete revolution. That would explain the holes in the ends of the arm levers because that's where you might actually attach a harness. I don't think they ran out of sfx money for this so you've got to wonder if they will return to this spot in a future show and explain the history and reason for why it exists, who built it, when it was built, and if it always performed this same function.
ratsnsnakes		#605	[-]
Posts: 717 (06/02/08 2:50 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	O.K. First things first: Locke, my boyfriend Sawyer, Juliette ... Excuse me, missy witch, he's MY boyfriend. Back off. Second, everyone keeps showing the donkey wheel picture that looks vertical, what about the donkey wheel in "Pirates of the Caribbean: The Black Pearl"? The one in the blacksmith's shop. That much more closely resembled what we had in the finale of Lost. As for polar bears, I don't know and I don't care if they pushed the wheel. A more pressing question is who was Ben signalling? I totally agree that it was Richard and The Others (good name for a rock group) up in "The Temple" which, by the way, we never saw. When Locke meets them in the woods, they were just waiting for him outside the Orchid station as per Ben's instructions. And if Locke's face is sans scars in the coffin, it could be makeup. Those funeral guys do some weird shit to dead people. I'm just sayin'
pussycow		#606	[-]
Posts: 2331 (06/02/08 3:48 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	chidelta wrote: I hope everyone is laughing as much as I am that there is a much too serious debate about whether or not it makes logical sense for a polar bear to be turning an ancient wheel that can move an entire island and its immediate surroundings in time and space. If not, you guys need to go have a stiff drink, or get laid (or both). X Of course, I could still use a stiff drink and a good lay
cindidindi76		#607	[-]
Posts: 10790 (06/02/08 5:10 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I could use a good drink and a.....eh, never mind. It's kind of funny that of all the shit that happens on this show, it's something like whether or not a polar bear would be half turning a crank that has people bickering, lol.
CoconutPhone		#608	[-]
Posts: 13569 (06/02/08 6:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	good point y'all. Of course I never got into the debate. Seemed silly to even me and I watch "The Hills".
Aunt Pappy		#609	[-]
Posts: 16193 (06/02/08 6:30 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I was going to say if Ben and the bear hadn't both ended up in the desert, there'd probably be no bickering. However, after thinking about it more, I guess even if the bear had been unearthed somewhere like Guatamala there's a very good chance it would still be thought that the bear turned the wheel at one time now that we know people (or animals) get sent "somewhere" when the wheel is turned. It's just both of them ending up in that damn desert that makes one certain there's a connection to turning that damn island-mover.
PoChop		#610	[-]
Posts: 1607 (06/02/08 6:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It could be that the island is just partial to sending things to Tunisia. Didn't they mention in earlier episodes that there were certain special places on the globe where things like healings, etc. Take place? Tunisia might be one of those places. Presumably there's strange exotic matter buried near these areas?
Fluffynurse		#611	[-]
Posts: 13697 (06/02/08 6:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think it's wierd that the bear died at the same spot where Ben landed. Wouldn't the bear have time to wander around before collapsing? Or did the bear die during the transport? I know, I know. Those damn polar bears again.
phantomkp		#612	[-]
Posts: 319 (06/02/08 6:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	PoChop wrote: When it comes right down to it that damned donkey wheel is just as stupid as the code entry in the Swan hatch. There wasn't any big reason to have a human enter the code every 108 minutes when it would have been a lot easier to automate the process. For goodness sakes that room was filled with computers! Are we supposed to think that there wasn't a software person in Dharma that could have written a batch file to enter the numbers every 108 minutes? And at the very least someone could have designed a mechanical gizmo that would have typed the numbers and carriage return directly onto the keyboard if they wanted it decoupled from the computer system. Saying there wasnt any big reason to have a human enter those numbers every 108 minutes and that it was stupid and will never be explained is like saying the smoke monster will never appear again or be explained...lol there will be an explanation about the button pushing thing...otherwise an entire season made no sense. The popular theory is that the button pushing was a rigged device (made by Ben and the Others) to continuously bounce the island back in time every 108 minutes...thus making it impossible to find. (a more refined variation of the donkey wheel turning) We know that once the button stopped being pressed...the island was visible again (Widmore showed up with the freighter). If that theory is in any way true, then you could make the case that you couldnt trust a computer program to be reliable with every iteration of bouncing back because there could be the case of bouncing back to a point where the computer wasnt programmed perform the task yet...or any number of anomolies that could occur dealing with time jumping and computer/hardware functioning. It would make sense for Ben and the Others to use the Swan hatch for this purpose, because it was already used by Dharma to experiment on humans doing repitive tasks. But the point is, its kinda early to jump the gun and assume the button pushing was irrelevant and made no sense when it hasnt been explained fully yet...no? The same with the donkey wheel And the theory about the button pushing from above is kinda the point of the show now...coming up with grand theories to explain the weird things that have happend so far. So all this discussion about the frozen donkey wheel...while to many may seem frivolous...it is a huge piece of the Lost theory mythology puzzle! So excuse me for trying to work it out :P It does make a huge difference about how it functioned in the past and who knew about it. Thats a big piece. Why the fuck do you need a trained polar bear lurking down there to turn the wheel on command? Couldn't you just rig a rope from down the tunnel to move the lever? Or maybe a pulley system if it needs to move more than 180 degrees? And don't give me any BS about an organic animal needing to be in the pit to allow the negatively charged exotic matter to do its thing. In that case you could just duct tape a mouse or a bunny to the rope or throw it in the pit before you need to turn the wheel. Why did they use an animal and not a pully? Probably the same reason they used bunnies in the smaller transport pod...they are scientists! Part of turning the wheel to them is to figure out why and how and when happens to a being down there when the wheel is turned. And rather than using humans for experiments, they used animals. I dunno, makes sense to me :P And why didnt they use duct taped mice and bunnies to turn the wheel you ask? Come on...did you really ask that...? Now you are just trying to be obtuse and contradictory...there is no way a mouse could function in that cold for long and no bunny has the strength to move that wheel....
CoconutPhone		#613	[-]
Posts: 13572 (06/02/08 6:58 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think we just need to make a Sucks Pilgrimage to the Holy land (aka Tunisia) to settle this once and for all.
cindidindi76		#614	[-]
Posts: 10800 (06/02/08 7:04 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And why didnt they use duct taped mice and bunnies to turn the wheel you ask? Come on...did you really ask that...? Now you are just trying to be obtuse and contradictory...there is no way a mouse could function in that cold for long and no bunny has the strength to move that wheel.... Did you even read what you're replying to? No one said a bunny would be turning the wheel. So all this discussion about the frozen donkey wheel...while to many may seem frivolous...it is a huge piece of the Lost theory mythology puzzle! So excuse me for trying to work it out :P I love when people state their assumptions/opinions as fact. I don't think anyone said the donkey wheel discussion was frivolous, they said it was silly that some people (not all) were trying so hard to argue that a polar bear definitely was turning the wheel, or definitely wasn't. Some things never change...
phantomkp		#615	[-]
Posts: 320 (10/10/12 2:12 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Chi, i agree with you completely. Nothing is absolute, and there are various reasons to explain coincidences (I believe Halliwax only went down there to study it, not to turn it! I dont think anyone suggested he turned it himself :P that would be rediculous!) Im just reacting (overreacting? ) to the disbelief of some that its stupid to think that a polar bear pulled the donkey wheel at some point in time. So i felt like i had to come with an equal and opposite reaction ;) I only push it because there are so many signs pointing to that idea, that its silly to dismiss it so easily. I do the same thing when people refuse to believe that time travel is part of the huge answers to Lost. Do i know for sure that time travel is one of the big explanations of whats going on? No. But even after watching every Desmond episode, and even after watching the island disappear, people still want to dismiss it. I think too many signs in Lost are pointing us in that direction. So im going to keep bringing it up as an almost certainty...just cause after 4 years you can tell when the creators are setting you up for something and when they arent. Its a very good educated guess in a sea of wacky theories and guesses...which is what this board is all about! I do disagree with you, however, with the possibilty that there was another way for Ben to get to the donkey wheel. Anything is possible, yes...but that would make absolutely no sense if true. If there were another way to that Wheel, Ben would have taken it. He knew Keamy and his men where going to the Orchid cause he knew they knew that was the way to get to the Wheel. Why trek all that way across the island, signal people with mirrors, get himself captured, get himself beat up by Keamy, go through the trouble to blow up metal in the transport...if there was another way there! Sometimes, you have to just pick a story and stick with it...even if it sounds absolute! Cause otherwise, you are facing illogical and stupid storytelling manipulation from Lost, and if i succumb to that being true, i might as well stop watching the show now. :P
phantomkp		#616	[-]
Posts: 321 (06/02/08 7:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	PoChop wrote: I don't think they ran out of sfx money for this so you've got to wonder if they will return to this spot in a future show and explain the history and reason for why it exists, who built it, when it was built, and if it always performed this same function. Do we really have to wonder that? lol If they never show the history and past function of the donkey wheel, this show will be crucified! I mean, how could you not address that stupid wheel and why it made the island disappear ever again?? I cant think of anything more huge to the concept of the show right now than that stupid ancient wheel and what it actually does. Its more important to whats going on in the show than the smoke monster, the 4 toed foot, or how these people survived a plane crash. So yea, i think they will return to the donkey wheel at some point in the next two seasons :P And i'll bump this thread! lol
phantomkp		#617	[-]
Posts: 322 (06/02/08 7:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You are right cindi...i misread that part about the bunnies and mice needing to be thrown in cause there might be a need for organic matter for it to work. But people do think so much discussion about the donkey wheel is frivilous...otherwise they would be more interested as to figuring out how it was used in the past generally and by Dharma specifically. It would also be an answer as to why polar bears where on the island question from season 1..i dont think thats frivolous. (using only polar bears to do experiments on climate changes to animals was always an inelegant reason. Kinda lame. this THEORY is alot cooler [no pun intended] and makes the creators look far more inventive in their mystery puzzle piece building.) Im not trying to say the polar bear donkey wheel connection is DEFINITE! Im just arguing that side, devil's advocate to the naysayers, so i guess it reads that way. All im saying is that when you see a puzzle piece that fits, you press it in. shrugs When the show never talks about polar bears again...then you can come back here and rub my nose in it. But geez, cant i have my own opinion for now about where the show is leading us? lol
Merrilin		#618	[-]
Posts: 1033 (06/02/08 7:36 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	cindidindi76 wrote: No one said a bunny would be turning the wheel. This visual made me giggle.
FeliciaM7		#619	[-]
Posts: 5776 (06/02/08 8:14 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I could use a good drink and a.....eh, never mind. It's kind of funny that of all the shit that happens on this show, it's something like whether or not a polar bear would be half turning a crank that has people bickering, lol. Yeah cuz the colors of those damn flowers in the Orchid greenhouse being red AND white (and not just red) is much more important than what the damn polar bears were or were not doing back in the day. F'real. I'll take that good drink and stiffy. Where we meeting for that pilgrimage..?
pussycow		#620	[-]
Posts: 2334 (06/02/08 8:25 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	cindidindi76 wrote: I love when people state their assumptions/opinions as fact. That's what gets to me, when people say "this is definitely what happens". You don't know. It's just a theory of yours. There are some shows where you can make assumptions and jump to conclusions, Lost is not one of them.

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5/29/08 S4 Finale "There's No Place Like Home, Parts 2 & 3"

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