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Thanks for pointing that out chad6. Those 2 seasons are neck and neck! If you have time, maybe you can check out whether the numbers I got for the older posts are right or not. I got different ones than you and the others. This now includes danny's post

Cook Islands can 100% be looked at as racist casting because THEY DIVIDED THE TRIBES BY RACE. That is a simple and plain fact. Not anyones opinion.

I don't know how educated you are on what "racism" really constitutes, but while segregating the tribes by race isn't racist in and of itself. Clearly, the intent wasn't meant to give any particular group a specific disadvantage. If certain groups were given a box of supplies and another group nothing like 1 of those pre-game parodies, then yes the segregation would be racist. The long-term institutionalized "separate but equal" segregation that caused conflict in the 60s is different from the short-term, Survivor-context division of tribes in Cook Islands. Additionally, you wouldn't call the casting sexist, because the tribes were divided in Amazon, Vanuatu, AND Exile Island right? It seems you and others have a problem with race generally. So no, not a "simple and plain fact"

I don't really know about people saying it was better than CI and Fiji pre season, but from the interviews, it did look like a better cast.

. You really could tell they were a more interesting cast based on a few minutes of interviews? Really? I mean, I know that's totally not judging books by their covers or making extremely snap judgments or anything...

Anyways, the whole matter of "better" is subjective in the first place, because obviously you're going to have preferences for different people based on a range of biases including race. You are more inclined to be interested and relate to those who you share a common racial identity with than those you don't. So if you and others have felt like the CI/Fiji casts were mysteriously more boring and uninteresting, but the white-majority casts of China for example were inherently more provocative, then it's likely not so much anything to do with those cast themselves, and everything to do with your own personal ability to connect with people of varying demographics. That's not to say you are racist. That would be "race bias" which is different, not too harmful, and which we all have including myself

The problem is when you don't recognize how race bias can affect your perception and one has the idea that their worldview constitutes true objectivity, which then becomes arrogance. This can lead to very real racism, and this would be the case for unapologetically biased folk like Dictatorship (notorious for liking white chicks and at times hating minority contestants with a passion) and Quiddity who tends to play the reverse racist card with alarming frequency

Also, I don't know about everyone else, but I lump Fiji and CI together for the simple fact that these happened close to the same time, and both had the same shitty editing with the helicopter shots and declaring Earl/Yul the winner by the second episode. (I actually lump Palau in with these two)

Well I realize you're new, but we've talked about this at length before in several threads. CI did not have the helicopter shots of Fiji. In fact the one who got the most similar kind of camera shot was Jonathan Penner when he went to Exile Island! Also, the editing of CI and Fiji were very different, so lumping them together makes little sense. Their only commonality, would be the ratio of UTR edits to MOR/CP/OTT edits, but that is basically the same for all 20-person seasons, which include Palau and now Micronesia

They gave screen time to few people, and the casting was sub par to say the least.

The screen time for 20-person seasons is lower naturally. However, it's been the same for the most part for all the 20-person seasons. In terms of casting, that would be your subjective opinion, as I felt we got some of the best characters ever in Cooks. The claim looks even less hollow given that the most representation of Micronesia from any 1 season came from Cook Islands, with Jonathan, Ozzy, newly crowned winner Parvati stealing much of the spotlight from some of the most popular contestants in post-ASS history

Besides this, I think CI and Fiji were completely different seasons.CI was a love fest where everyone got along, while in Fiji alot of people were extremely bitter.

YES. Which makes the weird lumping of the 2 seasons look quite race related

In CI there was unfair twist after unfair twist that gave Aitu the advantage and blatently ruined Survivor's integrity.

The thing is, a twist is ALWAYS unfair to somebody. Given that the 1 time people really have a problem with a twist and pay attention to how it harmed people was the season where there was a "white tribe" and a raced one, you can see why the whole rigging claim raises eyebrows

Fiji could sort of be said the same way but for a much different reason of the affecting twist from Haves/Haves not. I actually enjoyed the second part of Fiji even with some hated characters because of the gameplay good and bad. I hated cook islands for the lack of character development in addition with a straight foward pagonging after the merge. Fiji post merge was actually good except for some dispicible people making it far and the car choice. Also, Cook Islands had an average to good pre mutiny (because it wasn't just 4 people hogging ALL the airtime as it was post mutiny/merge) while Fiji had one of the worst pre merges in history due to the twist. We have no idea if the casting really was awful because we didn't get a chance to meet 75% of the cast.

Your personal reasons for not liking the season are valid and your own, but that's not what I'm blasting Quiddity for. I mean, not to say I don't have problems with your objections. Talking about predictable Pagongings obviously doesn't impress me given that CI is neither the 1st nor most predictable of wipe-outs ever, especially in comparison to the mother of all Pagongings--Borneo, which coined the term in the 1st place. Yeah yeah, it was the 1st and you could say it deserves special treatment for impressing you as a naive viewer who didn't know what to expect, but the fact remains that it's a subjective judgment call AND also the majority of seasons have had Pagongings including Thailand, which you rated quite high at #2.

But it has nothing to do with racism. No one is saying that.

I wasn't talking about everybody's dislike for those seasons. That is why I specifically had a problem with Quiddity who I have history with, and Dictatorship who was noted as a racist long before I even met him. Plus, both have been pretty insulting to me personally especially Dic, so it's not like I haven't given them plenty of benefit of the doubt

I mean, here alot of people are saying Guatemala sucked but not because there was only one minority. I enjoyed that for different reasons including the much better character development.

I wouldn't blow this issue up any larger than it needs to be. I didn't say that everyone who has a problem with those seasons are racist, although I certainly do feel race bias is a huge factor in perceiving those seasons. You may disagree, but that's just my opinion, given the arguments I've hard and what I've seen from posters here

First off, yes they could have changed bottles if they wanted to.

Well yeah, but why would you have such suspicions that the producers would go so far to alter the course of the game when such rigging claims have never been brought up before with controversial twists that screwed people over? Obviously, it becomes quite suspicious that the 1 time people become extremely cynical about the show's integrity is when a twist happens to hurt the white tribe. I'd expect more consistency over twist criticism if race was not involved in the equation

I don't know if they would have, but it was pretty unfair either way. No it wasn't fucking racist at all.

Additionally, with no proof or even a hint of any last minute changes in twist scheduling, making such an assertive claim when you know it's an attack on the show's integrity itself is suspect. If there was a picture of their scheduling wipeboard with no mention of a bottle twist but all the other twists that happened, then i'd be way more on board with the rigged complaints, as there'd be at least some evidence behind such a conspiracy theory, and I could see why some would jump at the issue. However, given that the complaints have manifested out of thin air and only when a white tribe was hurt, then it doesn't look so good. Yes the twist was unfair. ALL of them are to somebody. Someone always gets shafted in the process, with someone's luck increasing, and another's luck decreasing. If the only time people have real complaints against a twist are when it's harmful to a white tribe, then you can't tell me that race isn't factoring into perceptions