California Legalizes Gay Marriage

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B DeBrun		#201	[-]
Posts: 16624 (05/15/08 6:34 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	One good thing about this thread, proof that UC is banned. Else he would be all over this.
2Podunk 2Town		#202	[-]
Posts: 723 (05/15/08 6:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Monsieur Muggles wrote: shiza h minelli wrote: And this!!!! brings me back to my original post in which I said I didn't understand hetero's having a negative opinion on the subject of gay marriage... their opinion (to me) makes them seem suspect. I can't believe I'm doing this, but I'll defend bilkis here. The points he brings up are very valid. Legally, there is no difference between a civil union and a marriage, except in name itself. Wherein the crux of the argument should be taking place is whether or not benefits should be based on a word (marriage) as opposed to a separate but fundamentally equal institution (civil union). Barring gays from marriage and saying they can only have civil unions, regardless of the benefits, would be a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause. And if all you straighties think they name doesn't matter, why don't you take the name civil union and let the gays have the name marriage? If you think it is just a matter of semantics and what really matters is just the benefits, why don't you take civil unions? It shouldn't matter to you after all. Just semantics.
leeter		#203	[-]
Posts: 2304 (05/15/08 6:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You mean separate isn't equal? I'm shocked.
merkyl		#204	[-]
Posts: 53031 (05/15/08 6:36 PM) Registered loser Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And if all you straighties think they name doesn't matter, why don't you take the name civil union and let the gays have the name marriage? We had it first, sissy.
2Podunk 2Town		#205	[-]
Posts: 724 (05/15/08 6:37 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FREE FREE X BILKIS wrote: 2Podunk 2Town wrote: Why do you think only straight people should get what they want and make sure that gays only have civil unions and not marriages? But this is, in no way, having only straight people get what they want. It's a compromise -- gays get all of the rights that they are entitled to while the traditional institution of marriage is still kept in tact. Civil unions are a good compromise. I thought building consensus was part of our current shared liberal agenda? If straight people want to make sure that gays can't have a marriage, and gays want marriage, wouldn't that mean that only straight people got what they wanted? Because clearly the gays didn't get what they wanted. No one should have to compromise their civil rights.
excbexcb		#206	[-]
Posts: 815 (05/15/08 6:37 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	bluesboi wrote: FREE FREE X BILKIS wrote: excbexcb wrote: It seems that it all comes down to semantics. Exactly -- I mean, if all gays wanted was to have their "marriages", couldn't they just organize their own churches and get married there? That way, they'd have the equal rights and they'd be able to say they were married without intruding on the traditions of the nation. It's just the most simple solution for all parties. You are so fucking stupid, Why are you so threatened by the gays? Afraid someone might jump you one night and FORCE you to marry them? Get over yourself. "traditions of the nation" what the hell is that suppose to mean? In Canada, the church is not forced to conduct marriage ceremonies for gay couples, its up to each individual church. It's the fact that the NATION recognizes you as a married couple that is the most important thing. Why are gay people threatened when others disagree with them?. I have no problem with gay people but heaven forbid I disagree with them. .
Monsieur Muggles		#207	[-]
Posts: 3832 (05/15/08 6:38 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It matters, though, because of the semantics. Marriage was originally religious term which has become inexorably involved with a government which is not supposed to take a stance on religion. By approving a religious term (marriage), it opened the door for either new religions to form or for the battle that we're having now, which is whether or not gays should be allowed to "marry."
2Podunk 2Town		#208	[-]
Posts: 725 (05/15/08 6:38 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	merkyl wrote: And if all you straighties think they name doesn't matter, why don't you take the name civil union and let the gays have the name marriage? We had it first, sissy. Well I just pissed all over it. So now it's mine.
bluesboi		#209	[-]
Posts: 1037 (05/15/08 6:39 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Why are gay people threatened when others disagree with them?. I have no problem with gay people but heaven forbid I disagree with them. what do we disagree on ?
FREE FREE X BILKIS		#210	[-]
Posts: 135 (05/15/08 6:39 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	2Podunk 2Town wrote: Barring gays from marriage and saying they can only have civil unions, regardless of the benefits, would be a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause. And if all you straighties think they name doesn't matter, why don't you take the name civil union and let the gays have the name marriage? If you think it is just a matter of semantics and what really matters is just the benefits, why don't you take civil unions? It shouldn't matter to you after all. Just semantics. In what way would it violate the 14th amendment? They are equal, they're just different. And as for your second point? Completely outrageous. The cultural accretions of marriage are exactly what makes it impossible to just revolutionise completely in the name of equality. Taking the steps that you suggest would destroy the whole tradition of marriage. I don't see how you can be so hypocritical as to argue against tradition then try to grab a part of it for yourself.
2Podunk 2Town		#211	[-]
Posts: 726 (05/15/08 6:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FREE FREE X BILKIS wrote: 2Podunk 2Town wrote: Barring gays from marriage and saying they can only have civil unions, regardless of the benefits, would be a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause. And if all you straighties think they name doesn't matter, why don't you take the name civil union and let the gays have the name marriage? If you think it is just a matter of semantics and what really matters is just the benefits, why don't you take civil unions? It shouldn't matter to you after all. Just semantics. In what way would it violate the 14th amendment? They are equal, they're just different. And as for your second point? Completely outrageous. The cultural accretions of marriage are exactly what makes it impossible to just revolutionise completely in the name of equality. Taking the steps that you suggest would destroy the whole tradition of marriage. I don't see how you can be so hypocritical as to argue against tradition then try to grab a part of it for yourself. Well you seem to be the one who doesn't think that the name should matter to gays. So since you don't think the names matter, I was just offering a logical alternative.
bluesboi		#212	[-]
Posts: 1038 (05/15/08 6:41 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FREE FREE X BILKIS wrote: In what way would it violate the 14th amendment? They are equal, they're just different. WTF?
excbexcb		#213	[-]
Posts: 816 (05/15/08 6:42 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If you guys want equal rights then why do you refer to it as Gay Marriage?
nomii		#214	[-]
Posts: 4166 (05/15/08 6:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	So Bilky, lets say Scientologists don't "marry", they "xenufy" when they have their unions. Do you want the govt to have seperate (but equal!) forms for every different form of union? Or are you saying that Christian marriages should use the "marriage" form getting a marriage license, but everyone else should get a civil union form/license. Isn't that discriminatory treatment at worst, and at best an inefficient process? The best and easiest method would be to just have 1 form for all unions (and right now that is called 'marriage'. we can change it to civil unions for everyone if you want).
2Podunk 2Town		#215	[-]
Posts: 727 (05/15/08 6:42 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FREE FREE X BILKIS wrote: 2Podunk 2Town wrote: Barring gays from marriage and saying they can only have civil unions, regardless of the benefits, would be a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause. And if all you straighties think they name doesn't matter, why don't you take the name civil union and let the gays have the name marriage? If you think it is just a matter of semantics and what really matters is just the benefits, why don't you take civil unions? It shouldn't matter to you after all. Just semantics. In what way would it violate the 14th amendment? They are equal, they're just different. And as for your second point? Completely outrageous. The cultural accretions of marriage are exactly what makes it impossible to just revolutionise completely in the name of equality. Taking the steps that you suggest would destroy the whole tradition of marriage. I don't see how you can be so hypocritical as to argue against tradition then try to grab a part of it for yourself. It would be a violation because you are barring particular groups from access to marriage and barring another group from access to civil unions. That would constitute discrimination. And denying those cultural aspects is why the name civil union isn't good enough. You are telling gays that they can't have that.
FREE FREE X BILKIS		#216	[-]
Posts: 136 (05/15/08 6:44 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The name shouldn't matter to gays because they're gaining the rights that they desire. They have not been a part of this nation's tradition of marriage and thus, have no attatchment to the name. The majority of this nation, however, does have an attatchment to the name. It makes up a huge portion of their culture, and to rob them of that in the name of "equal rights" is ridiculous. "I know that we now have all the same rights including parental care, the ability to divorce and argue in court for child support, the right to refuse testimony against each other, and I can leave all of my assets to you if we die, but its called Civil Union instead of marriage. I can't support this." Does that sound reasonable to you?
bluesboi		#217	[-]
Posts: 1039 (05/15/08 6:44 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	excbexcb wrote: If you guys want equal rights then why do you refer to it as Gay Marriage? Breeders refer it to Gay Marriage
2Podunk 2Town		#218	[-]
Posts: 728 (05/15/08 6:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	excbexcb wrote: If you guys want equal rights then why do you refer to it as Gay Marriage? The media calls it gay marriage. I don't. As I said in another post, there is only marriage. Not straight marriage. Not gay marriage. Just marriage. Gays are fighting for the right to marry. Not fighting for gay marriage.
merkyl		#219	[-]
Posts: 53033 (05/15/08 6:45 PM) Registered loser Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Gays are fighting for the right to marry. Not fighting for their country. Fixed for ya champ.
2Podunk 2Town		#220	[-]
Posts: 729 (05/15/08 6:46 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FREE FREE X BILKIS wrote: The name shouldn't matter to gays because they're gaining the rights that they desire. They have not been a part of this nation's tradition to marriage and thus, have no attatchment to the name. The majority of this nation, however, does have an attatchment to the name. It makes up a huge portion of their culture, and to rob them of that in the name of "equal rights" is ridiculous. "I know that we now have all the same rights including parental care, the ability to divorce and argue in court for child support, the right to refuse testimony against each other, and I can leave all of my assets to you if we die, but its called Civil Union instead of marriage. I can't support this." Does that sound reasonable to you? I don't have an attachment to the word marriage? News to me. I'm just as much a part of the American culture, which includes marriage.

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