S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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AllMenAreIslands		#4741	[-]
Posts: 23704 (05/09/08 9:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think it's Parvati's attitude about the game that will get her the win. She made a bunch of alliances, but she needed every single one. Erik tried to align with everyone, but that's not how you do it. Parvati, if she can manage it, will convince enough people that she had a game-long gameplan and purpose. At the Reunion, she'll explain how her background in organizing charity events helped her to get people to find something in it for them to go along with her plans. Cirie may have been good at individual battles, but Parvati had mapped out the whole war.
Jedijake		#4742	[-]
Posts: 5140 (05/09/08 9:40 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well, what AMAI said about the reward and the family visit are pretty telling I suppose. I have to admit, I've become so bored with family visits that I don't really pay attention to or care about them anymore (and haven't for a while). But yeah, that is something. Still, they didn't really spend any time with anyone on that reward .Yet, Cirie had the commentary of the "soul searching" while swimming with the jellies. So she was featured at least. Honestly, I don't even remember off hand who won that challenge and what family member came to visit that person. All I remember from the family reward challenge is Cirie swimming with the jellies and giving her commentary. As far as the relationship thing-hmmm...there's a point there. Still, did Earl have a relationship with anyone on the jury? Yeah, I know that season sucked, but still. But from that standpoint, we've seen developed relationships between Amanda and Parvati and jury members. *Amanda: Ozzy, James, Erik Parvati: Eliza, Ozzy, James, Alexis Cirie*? No, I guess not really. She helped to save Eliza 'til the merge and helped to save Jason and Erik at least once. But yeah the only relationships she's had was with Amanda. Still, it was more about how Amanda feels toward Cirie than visa versa. I still vote for Cirie to win though. But the relationship thing does put a new spin on things.
craig		#4743	[-]
Posts: 13051 (05/09/08 9:58 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yes, jury relationships are Cirie's biggest edgic weakest. Not enough attention to why X would vote for or against her. No attempts to create any sort of doubt or foreboding (is she a threat, should she be voted off? is she backstabbing too many people?). Parvati and even Amanda look better in this regard. Also she had a bit of a slump ep.8-12. Was UTR a couple times. Parvati got total credit for Ozzy's boot in the following recap. Cirie is happy about the injures in ep12 because they get her closer to winning. Parv has a Tom-like "I'll get you" line in the chop challenge. Cirie's wimpy strategy of voting with the fans is unexlplained, while Amanda and Parvati are the ep.12 heroes.
Relynn		#4744	[-]
Posts: 559 (05/09/08 10:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AllMenAreIslands wrote: I think it's Parvati's attitude about the game that will get her the win. She made a bunch of alliances, but she needed every single one. Erik tried to align with everyone, but that's not how you do it. Parvati, if she can manage it, will convince enough people that she had a game-long gameplan and purpose. At the Reunion, she'll explain how her background in organizing charity events helped her to get people to find something in it for them to go along with her plans. Cirie may have been good at individual battles, but Parvati had mapped out the whole war. I don't know..Parvati's backstabbing could really hurt her. Alexis/James/Ozzy/ and whoever else Parv puts on the jury might not be thrilled to be regarded as Parv's "pawns" and some might feel that she could have made less problems. The thing is they really could be giving Parv more doubt if she was the winner. (They could also make Amanda look a lot worse if she's the loser) For example, according to Eric, James was A LOT more angry than it was shown no tv by Parv's duplicity. Plus, in Insider, Amanda came off a lot worse then tey did in the episode. And she also mentioned a comment to Eric about Parvati not looking for the idol because she knows she's going to the Final 3 no matter what because Parv deceived everyone on the jury. Eric mentioned that he thought nobody would vote for Parv either. But this isn't shown on the show. If Parv were to win anyways, it would be the perfect way to install doubt. I don't know though.
fat little fingers		#4745	[-]
Posts: 5513 (05/09/08 10:17 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cirie's wimpy strategy of voting with the fans is unexlplained, There was Amanda's odd little opening conf that described Cirie as still a trusted member of the F-3 alliance. A rather contorted explanation about how Cirie was still trusted because she was reluctant to call a tie...but, instead to vote for Amanda? Uh-huh... It was obvious that the eds felt the need to patch the F-3 alliance up asap for the coming story. Buh-bye Natalie, you've had your F-4 moment. Congrats. Now go sit over there with Darrah, Jennifer, and Denise.
AllMenAreIslands		#4746	[-]
Posts: 23705 (05/09/08 10:40 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AnneZob wrote: It Natalie wins, you might as well throw Edgic out of the window then and there. Hey, can anyone identify a potential "winner quote" from Natalie? I'm sure she has one. Nothing throws Edgic out of the window. It's a learning experience. If we get tripped up, we write another guideline. Maybe the producers decided to blindside the viewers by keeping her hidden; it feels like a one-off. Like something where this was the perfect season to have a winner come from nowhere, given the record number of blindsides. It would all be in the jury presentation. Up until now, Natalie didn't have to really do anything to stay in the game. She wasn't a target during the early game, she was someone others talked to to try to get her to agree to their plans. She was key in making the Jason and Erik blindsides work. If Natalie were the winner, it would mean MB has gotten a new editing team But as far as I'm concerned, it would make us make Edgic better. If anyone still wanted to do it, that is. I would hope they would. I think it would teach us to pay attention to how the stories are being told and to be open to working out how the pieces are fitting together. There was a point when everyone's edit seemed suspect and "not a winner's edit." When there's an aberration (and Nat's edit from eps 1-10 is a perfect example of an aberration), question it, look at it, don't dismiss it. That's what we'd learn. If anyone other than Parvati wins, we'd have to see what it was that we missed, what we focused on to the exclusion of other things that weren't given enough or any weight. It could mean there's only so much "doubt" a player's edit can take before it's the story of how that person lost.
ProbstFan123		#4747	[-]
Posts: 10117 (05/09/08 10:44 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm not sure what guideline you could possibly add that would allow edgic to pinpoint someone like Natalie as the winner in future seasons, as opposed to players like Cirie, Parvati and Amanda. What guideline would encompass Natalie's edit, while ruling out Cirie, Parvati and Amanda as possible winners? It can't be done.
unduli clone		#4748	[-]
Posts: 2768 (05/09/08 10:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Jedijake wrote: Well, what AMAI said about the reward and the family visit are pretty telling I suppose. I have to admit, I've become so bored with family visits that I don't really pay attention to or care about them anymore (and haven't for a while). But yeah, that is something. Still, they didn't really spend any time with anyone on that reward .Yet, Cirie had the commentary of the "soul searching" while swimming with the jellies. So she was featured at least. Honestly, I don't even remember off hand who won that challenge and what family member came to visit that person. All I remember from the family reward challenge is Cirie swimming with the jellies and giving her commentary. I think AMAI was actually referring to the EP7 RC, where Malakal won the visit to the waterfall/ shower deal. Insider videos showed that they received letters from home, but the edited show just told about Erik's wonderment at reward and Ami and Amanda getting topless to shower; nothing from Cirie in regards to her family or the reward in conjunction to herself. And jury relationships really is one of Cirie's weak points (though her EP1 in combination with two resulting 5 visibilities is what prevented me from ever backing her). Look at whose had jury connections: Todd (notably JR), Earl (notably Yau, Michelle, Boo), Yul (notably Candice, Jonathan, Adam), Aras (notably Cirie, Courtney), Danni (notably Rafe, Gary), Tom (notably Ian, Caryn, Gregg), Chris (Eliza, Julie, Chad, Sarge), Amber (notably Shii, Kathy), Sandra (notably Christa, Rupert), Jenna (notably Heidi, Christy, Deena), Brian (notably Helen, Ted), Vecepia (mostly only Sean), Ethan (notably Lex, Tom), Tina (notably Keith, Liz) and Rich (notably Rudy, Greg). Though most are in relation to their alliances, every winner has had jury connections of sorts. Cirie's have been weak at best, and not noted post-merge, which is an important time to bring up jury connections. If Amanda is voted out before the FTC, I think Cirie has a jury connection there, but other than that, I don't see any. Parvati was connected to Eliza, Ozzy and James (if not more); Amanda to Ozzy and Erik (if not more); and Natalie to Jason and Alexis. Cirie has pretty much nothing...
wallduck		#4749	[-]
Posts: 427 (05/09/08 10:57 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I've been too busy to watch this season, let alone read the Edgic thread. I saw just the first couple of episodes and most of the last couple. So I really don't know who wins. Since I can't practice true edgic, I will experiment with edgic Lite.... Given the first episodes, I eliminate Amanda. For her generally nasty tone, I eliminate Natalie. Leaving Cirie and Parvati. I see that the majority pick of the Edgic thread is Parvati, but given Edgic thread's fiasco last season I'm not sure what that's worth. I have always disliked Parvati. But I've liked her in the last couple episodes. I think her tone is just right. A point in her favor. OTOH, I've never been a Cirie fan either, but I have to bow to her and the brilliance of her gameplay. Point for Cirie (since even gameplay is subject to editing). GIMG always picks wrong, and he is picking Cirie. FLF always picks wrong, and he is picking Parvati.... Draw. I am not a big fan of the first-episode theory, and I think it's overrated. But it's not meaningless. Point for Parvati. I don't see how Parvati beats Cirie in the F3 vote. But then I don't believe in game logic. (Many claimed that Amanda would slaughter Todd in jury vote). Point for Parvati. I do believe in the MORD, but that seems inconclusive. I can't see how the majority-viewer believes that Parvati can beat either Amanda or Cirie. Point for Parvati. There is no 10.
AllMenAreIslands		#4750	[-]
Posts: 23706 (07/06/21 3:10 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	fat little fingers wrote: Cirie's wimpy strategy of voting with the fans is unexlplained, There was Amanda's odd little opening conf that described Cirie as still a trusted member of the F-3 alliance. A rather contorted explanation about how Cirie was still trusted because she was reluctant to call a tie...but, instead to vote for Amanda? Uh-huh... It was obvious that the eds felt the need to patch the F-3 alliance up asap for the coming story. Buh-bye Natalie, you've had your F-4 moment. Congrats. Now go sit over there with Darrah, Jennifer, and Denise. But flf, why would they have to patch up the F3 alliance if the F3 alliance stays together? It could be in tatters because the plan has changed, and that's why we were shown Cirie working the room, directing the moves. She thinks she's invisible to everyone, but I bet the reason for patching up the F3 alliance is to add some suspense to Cirie being the bootee at F4. That could be why we heard Parvati's exclamation about Cirie's ability to make a fire in the dark. She hadn't realized the extent of Cirie's abilities - now if there's a tie at F4, and Cirie is involved, she could beat whomever it is and wind up in the F3. Is that what Amanda and Parvati really want? They should have no difficulty convincing Natalie to vote Cirie out. No tie, no danger, and what's best, no Cirie stealing the win with all her games moves. Cirie's high visibility seems to me more a respect edit for someone who played too well, and didn't win. We saw all the moves she made, but we didn't really see enough connections to people on the jury for all the time we saw her talking about the game and what she was going to do. Not enough SPV. The reason we didn't see the family stuff both times (early spa reward and the family visit reward) was that the winner wasn't present at either of them. And Cirie was present at both those events.
AllMenAreIslands		#4751	[-]
Posts: 23707 (05/09/08 11:14 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Relynn wrote: The thing is they really could be giving Parv more doubt if she was the winner. (They could also make Amanda look a lot worse if she's the loser) For example, according to Eric, James was A LOT more angry than it was shown no tv by Parv's duplicity. ... Plus, in Insider, Amanda came off a lot worse then tey did in the episode. And she also mentioned a comment to Eric about Parvati not looking for the idol because she knows she's going to the Final 3 no matter what because Parv deceived everyone on the jury. Eric mentioned that he thought nobody would vote for Parv either. But this isn't shown on the show. If Parv were to win anyways, it would be the perfect way to install doubt. There's a point when too much doubt starts to look like protesting too much, and would have the opposite effect: it would make it a certainty that she won, if that's why they were doing it. Amanda's conversation with Erik will now be colored by the method in which he was targeted. Amanda and Natalie had a lot more to do with blind-siding Erik than Parvati did. It's possible that he would end up voting for Parvati; for him to be shown saying "nobody would vote for her" would be too much if he does and she's the winner. Earlier, when I was talking about her attitude, I was thinking of the light-hearted way she had of examining her pickle - the fact of having apparently made too many alliances. In point of fact, she didn't make too many - she needed an alliance at each step of the way. To my mind, either it's conventional editing and Natalie receives only one vote, and she breaks the tie in Parvati's favor, or she gets 3 votes, for a tie with Parvati, and Amanda has to break the tie and she picks Parvati. Or how about this scenario: James & Ozzy vote for Amanda. Those who vote for Natalie are Alexis and Eliza; those who vote for Parvati are Erik, Cirie and Jason. There is a tie, but Parvati with 3 votes is the winner. Last Edited By: AllMenAreIslands 05/09/08 11:17 PM. Edited 1 times.
fat little fingers		#4752	[-]
Posts: 5514 (05/09/08 11:18 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	but given Edgic thread's fiasco last season I'm not sure what that's worth. Lol, wallduck, damn you! FLF always picks wrong, and he is picking Parvati... Okay, now the nastiness is getting personal!! But flf, why would they have to patch up the F3 alliance if the F3 alliance stays together? Very true, AMAI. My wishful thinking is showing.
getting real		#4753	[-]
Posts: 1198 (05/09/08 11:53 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think it's Parvati's attitude about the game that will get her the win. Parvati's attitude: Everyone else = LOSERS!
ProbstFan123		#4754	[-]
Posts: 10118 (05/09/08 11:56 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	That's actually not a bad attitude to have if you want to win this game.
Jedijake		#4755	[-]
Posts: 5143 (05/10/08 7:39 AM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well it is a bad attitude if it's shoved down the viewer's throats and displayed in the open. That was the same attitude that Steph and RobM had.
JFRX		#4756	[-]
Posts: 62 (05/10/08 7:40 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Despite all the problems being presented,I think that Cirie still has a great chance of winning if she makes it to the finals. She has been portrayed as the mastermind of Micronesia. One of my friends, who hasn't seen Exile Island, and hasn't been skewed by her positivity from that season, says that he doesn't like her very much, but he is always astounded that whatever she wants always seems to happen- all of her plans are successful. He thinks that she has the best chance of winning going into the finale. However, her lack of jury connections seems to suggest that she is going to be voted out at the final 4, just before the jury- just like Rob C, Rafe, and Yau-Man. However, to the average viewer, despite her 'connections' not being made obvious, it is clear that she has made few enemies, and would be an obvious threat to win easily once in the final 3. So I'd expect Cirie to either come fourth or first, based on the edgic precedents that we have to rely on. However, even so, she has a great chance of winning. Again, recall that the number of confessionals that she has received compared to Parvati, the only other real (edgic) threat, is much higher and also much closer to the average winner's. It cannot be denied that Parvati was ignored during for a few episodes straight after the swap, having few confessionals and not even providing insight into the circumstances of the tribemates' exits. Doubt of a Parvati win has been piled on all season, not just during this last episode. She was an important character for a time, being the swing vote for the Ozzy boot, but this role is only likely to turn the jury against her. Compare this to Cirie. Even though it wasn't necessarily in episode 1, she was established early on as a good player and it was clear to most of edgic that she would indeed be an endgamer. She has not had a string of UTRs in a row, but a few that were well spaced out, just like most previous winner. The complex tribe theory, albeit having been downplayed this season, still suggests that the winner was on the original and new Malakal tribe, pointing to Cirie. Ignorance of this edgic rule was admitted to have caused the strong PG backing last season, so it should certainly be taken into consideration. PS. Just a thought- perhaps the fact that there's no 'perfect' winner's edit indicates that we may have a tie that will be resolved at the live reunion, and that the editors don't actually know who the winner is.
cyclehausen		#4757	[-]
Posts: 4310 (05/10/08 7:48 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Those who vote for Natalie are Alexis and Eliza; Nothing in the editing or the story suggests that Eliza would ever vote for Natalie. And history tells us that she will vote for someone she respects who played her.
Relynn		#4758	[-]
Posts: 567 (05/10/08 7:50 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	There was Amanda's odd little opening conf that described Cirie as still a trusted member of the F-3 alliance. A rather contorted explanation about how Cirie was still trusted because she was reluctant to call a tie...but, instead to vote for Amanda? Uh-huh... This may be done to spruce up Amanda's game play. Because you had Cirie saying Amanda's good she got me to the point of being willing to pick rocks, I think it was a trust test. And then you have Amanda saying "It was a Trust Test" Now, this could mean that Amanda will get screwed later, or it could be that they are building up Amanda as a player. What I mean by this is until recently we have seen all of Cirie/Parvarti's moves. No, maybe they are showing us this, because they want us to think Amanda will win... Or they could be showing us this because they want to show us why Amanda wins.. That it's not "just because Parvati screwed over lots of people." It might also be because Amanda is respected as a player by others. (So they show Cirie complimenting her, Eric calling her strategic, Alexis talking about her social game) I guess it would go to the question again, do you want to take someone to the end who has backstabbed nobody in this game (or next to no one) and is also someone others respect as a player. So I think this is either, Amanda screws up again and loses/ or she's voted out and is a distraction. Or the editing is telling us, People are making a million dollar mistake by letting a player like Amanda stay in this game.
AnneZob		#4759	[-]
Posts: 109 (05/10/08 8:47 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Does anyone have a confessional count for various players for Episode 13?
AllMenAreIslands		#4760	[-]
Posts: 23708 (05/10/08 9:01 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Jedijake wrote: Well it is a bad attitude if it's shoved down the viewer's throats and displayed in the open. That was the same attitude that Steph and RobM had. Very true. Thing is, Parvati's attitude hasn't been shoved down our throats AND she hasn't been shown as disrespectful to people's faces for no reason. Her giggly confessionals are one thing, but by & large she's been shown being even-tempered. Remember how nasty Steph was to Lydia, and even people who were her alleged BFFs. Nothing in the editing or the story suggests that Eliza would ever vote for Natalie. And history tells us that she will vote for someone she respects who played her. True. She might be a vote for Parvati, actually. But it depends on how things are presented to the Jury. I'm just saying, Eliza's vote is one of those "up in the air," and she could decide to throw a vote to someone who (a) is not the pageant girl and (b) is not the girl who humiliated her. Ergo, she'd vote for Natalie because she too made moves and earns respect. It's just my suggestion for one way for there to be a very close count at the end. Maybe Erik votes for Natalie since she played him, maybe he votes for Amanda. Many of the jurors are possible votes for each one of the final 4. Thing is, as presented, it looks to us like Cirie is a lock to win if she's allowed to get to the end. It was such an unnecessary tidbit to show us Cirie making a fire in the dark AND Parvati commenting upon it with disbelief, admiration and the beginning of concern. Uhoh, what if there were a tie at F4, and rather than being the sure-fire loser, Cirie were the winner of it? So the choice to go for a tie could mean that she, Parvati, were out if she had to start a fire competing against Cirie. Parvati wouldn't take that chance; she'd organize "her" girls to boot Cirie rather than risk it.

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S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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