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urrout		#4301	[-]
Posts: 1655 (05/05/08 10:36 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The ruse. Pretending along with Amanda that she was going home. Cirie and Parvati could have blown it if their acting skills were not also good. Think about it. Amanda would have been safe but Cirie or Parvati would have been voted out. It was for their survival.
sunflower101		#4302	[-]
Posts: 1228 (05/05/08 10:41 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	urrout wrote: The moves helped the fans. Why would they do something different? They got rid of threats and Jason was one of them. Amanda would have taken those threats to the finals and lose big if she had her way. How do you know Parvati wasn't planning on taking them to the F2 or F3? Amanda finding the HII stopped that. There is a reason for her wanting to keep Nat over Alexis even though they probably would have been able to boot Alexis anytime because of her knee making it unlikely she would win any ICs. Parvati was probably hoping they would take out Amanda for her like Parvati did for Amanda when Ozzy was booted. The point is Amanda has no back up plan except immunity and that is why she is not a good player. Cirie and Parvati do. I think they want the F3 of C/N/P. If Amanda keeps winning immunity then they go with her, not as good but at least their chances of getting to the finals are good either way. At least I would hope so especially after the last TC. Amanda is just a vote and back up plan for C/P. Parvati helped Amanda find the idol. I do think Parvati wanted to keep Amanda at least a little bit longer for the numbers advantage. Probably didn't want to take a chance that the fans could join together and then pick her/Cire off.
mfrimley		#4303	[-]
Posts: 686 (05/05/08 10:45 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Katy Carney wrote: In all of those situations the scheme was presented as a scheme. If you want to just randomly decide on a whim that she's lying at certain times to support whatever claim you want to make that's up to you, but we weren't shown anything at all the entire season to support that. Nothing to suggest she wasn't completely loyal to James or Ozzy and everything to the contrary, including her schoolgirl-ish crush. You can disregard that and imagine her to be some master manipulator working her magic on a potential juror, but that is, again, not supported by anything we were shown. I'm still not sure I understand your point about what you think that scene meant. That she had some plan to oppose the women and keep James around over their objections, and preferably face him at the end? She knew perfectly well that the women were not going to keep him around, and we never saw her raise any objections to them about it. What was she supposed to say to James, 'We're probably getting rid of you next because you're too big a threat?' She knew her alliance was planning to blindside Jason, so she took the opportunity to reassure James, which you seem to think was more meaningful or reflective of her longterm strategy than it was. Parvati said herself that the women were 'spinning the guys around before devouring them' or something. Yet it was Parvati who was honest with James and told him his days were numbered.
Katy Carney		#4304	[-]
Posts: 1071 (05/05/08 10:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	mfrimley wrote: Katy Carney wrote: In all of those situations the scheme was presented as a scheme. If you want to just randomly decide on a whim that she's lying at certain times to support whatever claim you want to make that's up to you, but we weren't shown anything at all the entire season to support that. Nothing to suggest she wasn't completely loyal to James or Ozzy and everything to the contrary, including her schoolgirl-ish crush. You can disregard that and imagine her to be some master manipulator working her magic on a potential juror, but that is, again, not supported by anything we were shown. I'm still not sure I understand your point about what you think that scene meant. That she had some plan to oppose the women and keep James around over their objections, and preferably face him at the end? I don't think she had a plan or anything, I think she was content on pouting it out, but I do think it's representative of her desire to keep James around, which is why I don't believe it when people insist she was planning on getting rid of him at some point. She wanted James to stay just like she didn't want Ozzy to be voted out. She was disappointed because she likes them, despite what it would mean for her long term if they stayed.
sunflower101		#4305	[-]
Posts: 1229 (05/05/08 10:58 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	mfrimley wrote: Katy Carney wrote: I'm not making those assumptions, you're confused. I'm not saying that stuff would have happened, I'm saying that, had things turned out the way Amanda planned/wanted, Amanda would definitely lose. Amanda wanted: No alliance with the fans with F5 favorites and MAYBE attempting to vote out Ozzy at that point. Maybe. That's why Amanda, if she gets any votes at all, will owe it to Parvati and Parvati's enaction of her own plan. Amanda's strategy failed and it was the best thing that could have happened to her. When has Amanda has ever said that she planned to go up against Ozzy? She promised Cirie and Parvati final 3, but we never saw her make any promises to Ozzy. As far as we know, her plan was to face them, which is what will probably happen. I'm not even convinced she wouldn't have participated in his blindside had they told her about it. We saw with her orchestrating the blindside of James in China that she is not a one dimensional strategist who will keep her orginal alliance together under any circumstances. She was mainly upset that she was lied to and left in the dark, not because her endgame plans were disrupted. I really wished they would have shown more of the James/Amanda friendship that he mentioned in his interviews. He mentioned that he wanted to go with Amanda to the final 3, and then go with either Ozzy or Parvati. It would have been interesting to know, who did Amanda consider herself more aligned with. Remember they did need Cire's vote, when that was said. So how serious was she about that promise, and because of Ozzy's blindside she had to honor it. We really won't know until there are some interviews with Amanda.Of Course she probably knows that the alpha males most often win too. We don't know if she had final 3 plans that included both Ozzy/James, but it wasn't shown because of Ozzy's blindside. It has been shown that Amanda hasn't been too happy with Parvati at different times.
mfrimley		#4306	[-]
Posts: 687 (05/05/08 11:00 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Katy Carney wrote: I don't think she had a plan or anything, I think she was content on pouting it out, but I do think it's representative of her desire to keep James around, which is why I don't believe it when people insist she was planning on getting rid of him at some point. She wanted James to stay just like she didn't want Ozzy to be voted out. She was disappointed because she likes them, despite what it would mean for her long term if they stayed. The fact that she had a final 3 deal with Cirie and Parvati and not, as far we know, with James, indicates that she did plan to get rid of him. Unless you're really bad at math or predicting a final 4 twist, it should be self-evident.
Katy Carney		#4307	[-]
Posts: 1072 (05/05/08 11:03 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	mfrimley wrote: Katy Carney wrote: I don't think she had a plan or anything, I think she was content on pouting it out, but I do think it's representative of her desire to keep James around, which is why I don't believe it when people insist she was planning on getting rid of him at some point. She wanted James to stay just like she didn't want Ozzy to be voted out. She was disappointed because she likes them, despite what it would mean for her long term if they stayed. The fact that she had a final 3 deal with Cirie and Parvati and not, as far we know, with James, indicates that she did plan to get rid of him. Unless you're really bad at math, it should be self-evident. But according to you she is a beguiling strategist. We have no way of knowing if she was sincere. How can you just take that at face value?
mfrimley		#4308	[-]
Posts: 688 (05/05/08 11:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Katy Carney wrote: But according to you she is a beguiling strategist. We have no way of knowing if she was sincere. How can you just take that at face value? Because if she planned to be in the final 3 with James and Ozzy instead of Cirie and Parvati, I would have expected to see her proposing that to them.
sunflower101		#4309	[-]
Posts: 1230 (05/05/08 11:06 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Relynn wrote: Katy Carney wrote: mfrimley wrote: When has Amanda has ever said that she planned to go up against Ozzy? She promised Cirie and Parvati final 3, but we never saw her make any promises to Ozzy. As far as we know, her plan was to face them, which is what will probably happen. I'm not even convinced she wouldn't have participated in his blindside had they told her about it. We saw with her orchestrating the blindside of James in China that she is not a one dimensional strategist who will keep her orginal alliance together under any circumstances. She was mainly upset that she was lied to and left in the dark, not because her endgame plans were disrupted. Amanda's own confessionals before Ozzy's boot express fear that he will be booted because he's such a big target. She worried about him and then after he was booted she pouted. She also tried to help James stay in the game so....I don't really know how you can argue that she was planning on getting rid of them. If she was planning on waiting then she's a fool. Ozzy had the idol AND was a huge immunity threat. So if her plan truly was to wait until F5 and hope that James and Ozzy didn't win either challenge then she's very naive and not very smart. I guess you could theorize that Amanda was just pretending in all of these instances where she was super-pissed that her four clique was disrupted, but that goes against everything we've been shown. But she is positioned better now and actually has a shot at winning, due to nothing that she did for herself except find the HII. Woo hoo. Brilliant. Last season, Amanda waited until Final 7 to take out James who was a huge immunity threat as well and had not one but TWO hidden immunity idols, and that little plan worked out just fine for her. Besides Ozzy said that Amanda never told him about Parv's alliances, which suggest that at the very least Amanda was saying in the interviews Ozzy better watch his back, but wasn't really watching his back for him... In someways you could argue that she was taking the position Parvati took with a possible Amanda ouster. (Ozzy can go, but I can't have anything to do with it.) Well we don't know that she didn't warn him to use his idol, and it just wasn't shown. Because of Ozzy's blindside, we aren't sure who was Amanda planning to be more loyal too.Parvati/Ozzy where friends outside of the game, so Ozzy might have stupidly chosen to trust her. I think Amanda didn't tell Ozzy about Parvati's outside alliances, because she was smart enough to realize it would be stupid to alienate Cire/Parvati. Even if she was just playing along and planning to stick with Ozzy to the end, you don't alienate people that aren't targeting you yet.
sunflower101		#4310	[-]
Posts: 1231 (05/05/08 11:23 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AnomyBC wrote: I think Natalie is the best player of the Fans myself. Even if I don't care for what I've seen of her. Can I say something.. I think Paravti is controlling the tribe, and I know everyone says that she deserves to win. But honestly, if your end game plan is to make promises to everyone on the jury, backstab them, and then bring to the Finals two people: Cirie who is widely respected as a strategist and didn't make that many promises and is also extremely likeable with kids. And Amanda who did absolutely no backstabbing, but is also respected as a player (you saw it this episode) Then you know what for all your great plans? Your End Game Sucks! If your going to play like Brian H, and lie and backstabb everyone at least have the forethought to take someone to the finals who is more hated than you. If you don't do this then, you deserve to lose just like Rob M did.. Well it would have been a very tight vote no matter who she took and I can definitely see what she might want it to be her, Amanda and Cirie in the Finals. I think she figures she gets votes from Catalie, Alexis and Jason that way, and that might be all she needs if it's a 3-2-2 vote. And then even if she does need another vote, that's a great a base to start from. Also, I don't think Cirie will necessary be as big of a jury threat with this particular jury as we would have imagined. I think most of them will split their votes between Parvati and Amanda. And in terms of Amanda, Parvati may not even have a choice, because Amanda may win the final immunity. In any case, I think she wins.... so her end game couldn't have been that bad : ) Do we know that Jason will vote for Parvati though. He made a comment in one of his interviews that Parvati was using Natalie/Amanda. Jason was aligned with Eliza who isn't Parvati's biggest fan. Plus Ozzy wouldn't have been saying great things about Parvati at the jury house.
AnomyBC		#4311	[-]
Posts: 4717 (05/05/08 11:29 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Trading one immunity for the other? Hey, bitch, you have the HII, just play it and the person we vote for is out. No need to be worried. No need to try to blindside someone. No need to make a trade. Granted, it's difficult to come up with a scenario where trading immunities makes sense. I thought about it for a long time and I came up with this, admittedly somewhat far-fetched, scenario: 1. Early in the episode, Cirie accidentally finds Ozzy's old HII. 2. Cirie asks to be sent to Exile so she can claim that she found the HII there. 3. Erik wins immunity. 4. Erik is approached by each of the girls to participate in various plans to vote out one of the other girls, in exchange for various supposed Final 3 deals, but he doesn't know who to trust. 5. Eventually, Cirie tells him that she found a HII on Exile Island and shows him Ozzy's idol. Erik looks at it and is convinced that it's a real HII. 6. Cirie tells Erik that she's decided that she can't trust Parvati and she wants to use the HII to blindside her, but the only way for that to work is for the HII to be played by the person who gets the majority of votes. Cirie believes that either Amanda or Catalie will get the majority of the votes, but she isn't 100% which one, and she doesn't want to tell either of them about her plan because she doesn't think either of them will vote out Parvati. BUT, she does know one thing: If he (Erik) were to give up immunity, then all the girls would vote for him. This means that he can then play the HII to eliminate Parvati. 7. Hence, Cirie proposes to Erik that they swap their immunities so that Erik can then play the HII to blindside Parvati. 8. Erik, who, as huge fan of show, is eager to get a chance to blindside someone---and particularly Parvati who blindsided his mancrush Ozzy---loves the idea and agrees to it. 9. So Cirie gives Ozzy's HII to Erik and Erik agrees to give Cirie his immunity necklace at TC. 10. At TC Erik does indeed give his immunity necklace to Cirie and all the girls pretend to be shocked. 11. Erik then votes for Parvati and all the girls vote for him, just as Cirie and Erik had planned. 12. Before the votes are read, Erik plays Ozzy's HII, but is shocked when Probst tells him that it's an old HII than can no longer be played. 13. Then the votes are read and Erik is voted out. And that, my friends, is what will forever be known as the stupidest thing ever done on Survivor! (Er.... well after Ian and Colby anyway....)
gretchensucks		#4312	[-]
Posts: 444 (05/05/08 11:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Guessing votes is a waste of fucking time. It never pans out how people are so damned sure it will. We only know what we've been privy too. I recently read an interview of Ami which showed that she was basically creaming her pants for Ozzy the whole time. She LOVES him, and wanted him to win. Who would have thought that from her edit?
sunflower101		#4313	[-]
Posts: 1232 (05/05/08 11:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	mfrimley wrote: Katy Carney wrote: But according to you she is a beguiling strategist. We have no way of knowing if she was sincere. How can you just take that at face value? Because if she planned to be in the final 3 with James and Ozzy instead of Cirie and Parvati, I would have expected to see her proposing that to them. We don't know which deal she wanted to honor more. She could have had a deal with them and it wasn't shown on the show. Not every alliance ends up on the show, especially if it doesn't lead to it effecting who is around on the end. I assume she had one with both Ozzy/James and Cire/Parvati. Ozzy was blindsided so she ended up having to stick to her deal with Cire/Parvati. If Ozzy had not been blindsided then, we don't know for sure what Amanda would have done. They have shown that Amanda wasn't too happy by Parvati making a lot of side deals that included her, without talking to her.
survivorready		#4314	[-]
Posts: 217 (05/06/08 1:01 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AnomyBC wrote: Trading one immunity for the other? Hey, bitch, you have the HII, just play it and the person we vote for is out. No need to be worried. No need to try to blindside someone. No need to make a trade. Granted, it's difficult to come up with a scenario where trading immunities makes sense. I thought about it for a long time and I came up with this, admittedly somewhat far-fetched, scenario: 1. Early in the episode, Cirie accidentally finds Ozzy's old HII. 2. Cirie asks to be sent to Exile so she can claim that she found the HII there. 3. Erik wins immunity. 4. Erik is approached by each of the girls to participate in various plans to vote out one of the other girls, in exchange for various supposed Final 3 deals, but he doesn't know who to trust. 5. Eventually, Cirie tells him that she found a HII on Exile Island and shows him Ozzy's idol. Erik looks at it and is convinced that it's a real HII. 6. Cirie tells Erik that she's decided that she can't trust Parvati and she wants to use the HII to blindside her, but the only way for that to work is for the HII to be played by the person who gets the majority of votes. Cirie believes that either Amanda or Catalie will get the majority of the votes, but she isn't 100% which one, and she doesn't want to tell either of them about her plan because she doesn't think either of them will vote out Parvati. BUT, she does know one thing: If he (Erik) were to give up immunity, then all the girls would vote for him. This means that he can then play the HII to eliminate Parvati. 7. Hence, Cirie proposes to Erik that they swap their immunities so that Erik can then play the HII to blindside Parvati. 8. Erik, who, as huge fan of show, is eager to get a chance to blindside someone---and particularly Parvati who blindsided his mancrush Ozzy---loves the idea and agrees to it. 9. So Cirie gives Ozzy's HII to Erik and Erik agrees to give Cirie his immunity necklace at TC. 10. At TC Erik does indeed give his immunity necklace to Cirie and all the girls pretend to be shocked. 11. Erik then votes for Parvati and all the girls vote for him, just as Cirie and Erik had planned. 12. Before the votes are read, Erik plays Ozzy's HII, but is shocked when Probst tells him that it's an old HII than can no longer be played. 13. Then the votes are read and Erik is voted out. And that, my friends, is what will forever be known as the stupidest thing ever done on Survivor! (Er.... well after Ian and Colby anyway....) Dude, this is too much fanfic!!!! It is so unreal. There is no way this will ever happen. If it were to happen, they would have made the viewers know way before that Ozzy didn't take the HII with him. Atleast in the recap in the next episode. Ozzy's HII showing up after a couple of episodes would be too suspicious to an average viewer. There has never been a Tribal Council where someone gets up after the votes are cast and tells Jeff that they want to use their HII on someone ELSE!!! This is how I see things going down: 1. Erik talks with Cirie about having the Final three be him, Parvati and Cirie. 2. Erik is sent to exile and finds the HII. 3. Amanda wins immunity. 4. Erik thinks Natalie is in danger of going home. 5. Natalie tells Erik that the fans should stick together so they will have an equal number of votes at the F4. 6. Erik agrees and tells Nat that the others will vote for her at the TC, he will then use the HII on Nat and Nat and Erik vote out Cirie/Parvati. 7. Nat tells the girls about this and they all wish and pray that Erik will do as he says and then they all vote for Erik. 8. Erik uses the HII on Nat and he goes home.
JTill is MY H3RO		#4315	[-]
Posts: 44 (05/06/08 1:31 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	To all those who are proposing ideas about someone finding the HII again...I thought that since it has been PLAYED and USED they won't be replanting it on exile? I thought the only reason the kept putting it back because it had never been used. Now Amanda used it...so, it's gone...over and done with, yes? It would be stupid for them to put it out there again......
ImANewUser		#4316	[-]
Posts: 1333 (05/06/08 1:57 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	JTill is MY H3RO wrote: To all those who are proposing ideas about someone finding the HII again...I thought that since it has been PLAYED and USED they won't be replanting it on exile? I thought the only reason the kept putting it back because it had never been used. Now Amanda used it...so, it's gone...over and done with, yes? It would be stupid for them to put it out there again...... Well, by memory, Fiji had those idols rehidden (someone clarify this, Fiji is forgettable).
ModestyBlaiser		#4317	[-]
Posts: 75 (05/06/08 2:00 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It went back out in Fiji. The only reason it never went back out in Exile and Cook was because it never got played. There's no precedent to say once it's played it's done. I don't know where this is coming from. I've heard heaps of people say it. They weren't replanted in China, but were in Fiji. China had no exile, so I would imagine the scenario to be more similar to that in Fiji. It goes out one more time I reckon.
moyanks		#4318	[-]
Posts: 70 (05/06/08 2:26 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't think Jeff would ask about the idol before he reads the votes. So maybe Erik would volunteer about using it. I really don't think this can happen. So I'm guessing he gives up the IC. As for Amanda not making a deal with Ozzy and James about the final 3. It's ordinary. Ozzy said in one of his interviews that if he was voted out at 5 or 4, he won't be that mad. I'm thinking Amanda planned to back stab Ozzy early on, but her game may have changed, she also fell inlove..) But thanks to Parv and Cirie she doesn't have to do the backstabbing on Ozzy. Hopefully this is one of the crucial moments that would let her win this time around. But I'm seeing a Parvati win so poor Amanda... Lol About Alexis, just reading insiders and Alexis' vote and piece like adoring and respecting the person she is voting for blah blah... Like Ozzy and Amanda vote. Alexis is not Ethan who would win Survivor being the nicest guy/girl around. Cut throat baby...
Trixiego		#4319	[-]
Posts: 14348 (05/06/08 4:54 AM) Kiss me, I'm Adminish Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	To put one matter to rest Reality TV World: So now that you're gone, do you think one of them will try to find it and keep it for themselves? Ozzy: No. The rules of the game are if I didn't give it to anyone, it's basically been absolved. Reality TV World: So do producers plan on re-hiding it? Ozzy: Yes they do. They re-hide it.
IReallyHaveNoIdea		#4320	[-]
Posts: 3100 (05/06/08 7:08 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'll have to rewatch the episode following Ozzy's boot to be sure, but I thought Jeff referred to Ozzy's Idol as "out of play" and that a new one would be hidden, which could mean that the old one is still out there, but no longer valid.� God, I hope so, because that really would be fun.� I can't wait to see this episode. survivorready wrote: Dude, this is too much fanfic!!!! It is so unreal. You sound like Natalie in this clip, where she's telling Parvati and Cirie "Who would fall for that?� I feel stupid listening to you guys right now."

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