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 AllMenAreIslands |
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Posts: 23550 (04/26/08 11:23 AM) Registered user |
TheLurkerSpeaks wrote: Maybe so, but it's against a background of really nasty meanness. Unfortunately that nastiness of Jason's happened in Episode 2, so perhaps people
have forgotten it. Also, we weren't shown anything to explain why Natalie would take on the mantle of retribution on behalf of Tracy/Chet/Kathy.
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AllMenAreIslands |
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Posts: 23551 (04/26/08 11:24 AM) Registered user |
9RedWing19 wrote: I do not consider Insider to be spoilers, but rather very interesting additional footage that has been chosen for release to the public for which there wasn't time in the show. |
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 Phoenix1269 |
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Posts: 150 (04/26/08 11:45 AM) Registered User |
You can' be serious about a P for Parvati? Come On!
she got credit for turning on her original alliance....Big Deal. That scene is not about positive or negative....it's about strategy, she got a kudu for a smart play. She tries for "damage" control... and giggles. Big Deal. Well and many posters over the course oft his season have so adequately mentioned in regards to Cirie...giggling doesn't make it positive. She is part of the Black Widow Brigade.... all of them deserve an N for that bit of darky-dark meanness....but really.... so she talks to James, and didn't come off too well. He called her out...told her she was selfish, told her to stop lying *yup...he caught her* she wasn't sorry and he knew it.... he knew he had been played. She tries to recover (notice the long glance down and to the left.... not a good sign, means she trying to recover and is fishing around for some other story).... and pulls up the snarky comment... well... you didn't think i could do it, blah blah. James tells her he never thought that.... that he always knew what she was like. She came off really whiney in the scene. James was the one with the real measure of the situation, and we have been shown that....all along throughout the season, when James says something, we are supposed to believe it....we've been set up for this moment. Parvati's apology to Amanda really wasn't any better. At least Cirie had the decency to give the poor girl a hug Parv just stood there like a shmo. She then stirs the pot and cackles like a witch with alexis, she laughs at Jason and James's IC loss. talks about devouring them... and this is visually backed up by the cake scene....with the mixed looks of amusement and disgust from the others.....she laughs at Jason some more . Really... she came off as rather unpleasant doncha think. The ability to laugh and giggle and smile doesn't make you a P... that's her defense mechanism.... it doesn't make her a P. The reality is....all of those women. deserve an N. They were - to quote Natalie (and i never thought i'd type those words) - cutthroat bitches. The whole episode tone was very dark and dangerous, the 5 of them were shown looking through Jason's stuff (in varying degrees of course) but only the guys got the looks of disgust. The only female you can make any real no-N argument for is Amanda and she is at best.... an M or a Nuetral because she had some very endearing scenes with James that shows how saddened she and how conflicted she is. That said...i agree you can't have Natalie and Parvati with the same tone level. Parv is an N.... Natalie.... is an NN. She was malicious. She was evil. So what if it was edited to be mostly thru confessionals. The upshot is that the audience thinks she is a Psycho...becuase that is what we have been SHOWN. The fact that it is juxtaposed so nicely with her "relationship" with Jason.... really hammers home what a piece of work Natalie is. Jason was truly blindsided.... he was used like a kleenix. And Natalie REVELLED IN IT. Not all Psychopaths are like Charles Manson .... Not all NNs will be like Judd. Ted Bundy was a nice-looking guy, friendly and helpful....and was far more dangerous because of it. The same is true of Natalie. NN It's okay that Parvati is a bit negative. She is really a bit bitchy this season.... that there is the reality that the editors have o work with.... things got dark and messy. You can't make her all sunshine and lollipops if that was there.... Oh for the record... one of the Cirie supporters thinks Cirie is an N too. :) |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 3745 (04/26/08 11:49 AM) |
Cirie really wasn't that negative. While all the young girls were talking about being witches, Cirie wasn't around. She had a very tame episode,
tone-wise.
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A Bartholomew |
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Posts: 3889 (04/26/08 12:00 PM) Registered user |
Catalie wins now, she was shown as the mastermind
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Katy Carney |
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Posts: 950 (04/26/08 12:17 PM) |
Cirie was in every single scene with the women cackling at their own brilliance. She was laughing along with Alexis and Parvati post-challenge and she was
lying on the beach with Alexis, Natalie, Parvati and Jason when they were talking about being a maneater vs. being a good girl, with all the spider imagery.
She was involved in the bag searching, too. If these things make Alexis and Parvati N then Cirie is def. N too.
Last Edited By: Katy Carney
04/26/08 12:26 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Survivor Boy |
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Posts: 5064 (04/26/08 12:44 PM) Registered User |
Umm... there's no fucking way in hell Parvati was positive this episode.
The editors knew that the rabid fan girls of this show want to suck Ozzy's cock, so giving Parvati the "credit" for BACKSTABBING him, I wouldn't say that is a positive thing. |
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briand73 |
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Posts: 59 (04/26/08 12:58 PM) |
Parvati is my pick but even that doesn't lead me to believe that she was P this episode. I could see arguments for M though. The P moments were debatable
(was is positive tone or just good strategy?), but the N moments were more clear. Her tone should be M at best.
Natalie needs to be NN. The editors were having some fun by giving us all of the cute grinning evil moments, but they really piled it on thick. If we can't give her an OTTNN, we need to come up with something worse than OTT. The worst offense of the whole episode was the bitch speech. This was the one point where Nat wasn't being cute-evil, she was being vindictive-evil. There was not lightness at all in this speech. Cirie deserves a neutral rating for this episode. She didn't get much coverage and she wasn't part of the black widow alliance. She may be voting with them, but she isn't with them enough to get the alliance label. Not Edgic, but James beats out Jason for the dumb-ass award this episode...actually, I think Amanda beats him out as well. These people have to realize that they are losing control of the game yet they do nothing to turn the tide. This was their one chance to become active participants in the game. |
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Katy Carney |
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Posts: 953 (04/26/08 1:08 PM) |
Cirie deserves a neutral rating for this episode. She didn't get much coverage and she wasn't part of the black widow alliance. She may be voting with them, but she isn't with them enough to get the alliance label.I've seen this a lot, not just in edgic, but this is totally untrue. Cirie was listed as part of the alliance in the opening scene with Amanda and she was shown with them literally every single time they were together as a group. There was not a single shot of Alexis, Natalie and Parvati that didn't include Cirie in it. Eating cake, sitting around the fire, sitting on the beach, celebrating after the challenge, etc. She is supposed to be seen as a part of that group of four. She's just not white and a size 0. |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 8072 (04/26/08 1:08 PM) Registered User |
James is just a really, really bad player all around. It's great that he wants his garden of eden utopia, and that doesn't make him a bad player for
wanting it. But what makes him bad is not countering and expecting others will upset this and then how to get around it.
I think Amanda's a good player, just boring TV. |
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unduli clone |
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Posts: 2716 (04/26/08 1:17 PM) Registered User |
Parvati was not P. No chance. I don't think she had enough to be N, and that the editing took careful pains to show that while she betrayed Ozzy, it made perfect game-sense (even James and Amanda agreed). She was shown as a strategist, but mostly avoided the association of NN with Natalie. Ozzy's boot was about helping Parvati winning, and it was sensible. Jason's boot was about Natalie being a diabolical feminist, and it was a bit personal. My ratings... Amanda - CPP3 She was clearly CP! Besides her "game on" comments, she talked about her position in the game and having to hide her anger at Parvati. I also felt she was a bit of P heroine in trying to help out James and feeling betrayed by Ozzy's boot. The slight N taint of her smiles at TC was only gratification for her man's early exit. Alexis - UTR1 I don't remember her this episode... I really don't think she made enough of an impact to be N. Cirie - UTR2 Like Alexis, not much impact (but clearly there more than she was). I also thought that Cirie was pretty well shielded from most of the negativity of Natalie, so avoids the N. Eric - MORP3 Not OTT. That was last week (and next week's preview). He was under-utilized and mostly flat, without enough to really be OTT. Though that finger-licking scene was really pushing it. 
James - MOR4 Hm. I thought he had real potential to be P, and that most of the audience will root for him, but I don't think he was edited as P. Most all of his comments were not about his position and about how he felt, but pretty much just SPV on Parvati. He was used as a tool to strengthen the story (especially Parvati's story), and we know nothing about James. Hence, a flat MOR. Jason - MOR4 Just a plain ol' MOR. I thought he was sweet and innocent and I'd have rather seen him play the HII and surprise someone, but ultimately he was edited as a dunce with no game, and I don't think it justifies a P. Natalie - OTTNN5 She was a diabolically evil mastermind who had a plot to utterly destroy the men. She reveled in her inhuman despicable behavior, and is a clear NN in my mind. Also, I <3 her. Parvati - CP3 My initial thought was actually MOR because she didn't seem as CP as she has been, but upon a closer look she really had the CP goods. You can read above why I don't think she was N (shielded from the main negativity, shown as a smart player and given a chance to explain herself), and I think the CP is a given. WINNERS: 01. Parvati ELIMINATED Cirie Eric Amanda Alexis James Natalie |
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AllMenAreIslands |
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Posts: 23553 (04/26/08 2:56 PM) Registered user |
It's really interesting that they didn't show us enough of the backstory with Jason to understand why people disliked him or at least why Natalie held
such a grudge. Jason got N eps in the early going, but then became a buffoon and laughingstock. I know I was saying, "Aww poor Jason" to his remarks
that he considered Natalie part of "his alliance" etc. So was the point just to make Natalie look vindictive for no reason, or is there some bigger
picture?
As for Parvati, I can agree with you all that she's not P but I also don't see her as N, either. I do think the intent was to soften the James comments by showing her as self-aware and upbeat during the confessional preceding it. If that balances out to No Tone, or M, I'd agree with that. Also, one of the effects of having someone as OTT as Natalie (and yes, I do agree now that she has to be OTT with an N or NN tone rating) is that it tends to reduce the Nness of other people by comparison. |
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fat little fingers |
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Posts: 5484 (04/26/08 3:25 PM) Registered User |
TLS, yes, I agree that there were Ns sprinkled into the women's actions and reactions. But, overall the main
behavior of the women was euphoria at discovering that they could actually overcome the men. And I also see this as an edit choice as well.
Natalie was definitely OTTN. I can see the reaction of NN, because after the long stretch of never opening her mouth, she finally does and nothing but expletives come out. But, she's still such a light-weight to me, it's hard to give her, "Yo, I'm such a bad bitch.", much credit. But, flossing with Jason's jugular, now that's OTT! Lol. For me, Parvati continues as straight-up CP gamer. That is the edit intent I see. She tells us that she knows her moves are causing trouble for her, but she takes it as a necessity that she will deal with as it plays out. She talks straight with James and keeps Amanda on board. There's no gloating, but rather an aware determination to keep taking risks to win. Yes, she gets some N for enjoying the power rush along with the other women. But if she gets an N for that, we must also give Ns to Alexis, Cirie, and Amanda ("Hell hath no fury..."). Speaking of Amanda, she did little Positive, except to talk about the TC with James. She later checked with Parvati and Cirie to see if their F-3 alliance was still intact. This episode was all about the women outplaying the men. And the person to get all the credit for the, (as Warrior explained very well), positive move on Ozzie, and therefore the credit for getting the ball rolling was Parvati. This ep wasn't about Parvati's N moves, it was about how Parvati is a worthy gamer. Parvati was CP. |
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Jedijake |
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Posts: 5096 (04/26/08 4:55 PM) MESS member |
ELIMINATEDSorry, but it's crap like that makes me wonder if a huge "FOUL" should be called. Putting Parvati as a #1 pick is one thing ( I can accept it, but not agree), but eliminating Cirie smells like rotting fish. If this season has shown us anything, it's that there's a battle going on and it mainly looks as though it's between Cirie and Parvati. To eliminate either is either insane or very supsicious. It's really interesting that they didn't show us enough of the backstory with Jason to understand why people disliked him or at least why Natalie held such a grudgeI agree, AMAI. It reminds me of Matt in S6. Jason seems to just not fit in socially with those who feel they are the Survivor aristocracy. It almost seems to me that Cirie and Amanda are being a little more objective about it while the likes of Parvati, Alexis, and especially Natalie are being spiteful and bitchy about it for no other reason than to just "pick" on him.
Last Edited By: Jedijake
04/26/08 4:58 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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getting real |
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Posts: 1186 (04/26/08 5:44 PM) Registered User |
If Fairplay lying about his Grandma wasn't NN making the other contestants' families voluntarily walk the plank, Natalie isn't for toung and cheek comments in a private confessional. Get real people... Seeing that I've been called in to adjudicate this , I
tend to see N as being obnoxious (like Parvati) and NN as being noxious (like Judd).
Natalie was somewhere in between. So she's Nn. |
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MissScamper |
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Posts: 722 (04/26/08 5:48 PM) Registered User |
Hi, all. I'm a long time lurker, who loves to read all your wonderful edgic comments. Unfortunately, I don't understand edgic enough to participate. I
do much better in Family Final Four. I just want to say that Natalie was so extremely negative in this episode that I just hated her! I would give her a OTTNN
if I did edgic ratings.
And for Miss PeeWater, I found her less negative than Natalie, but she's no where near positive in this episode to me.At best, she's mixed. All the women, except for Amanda, came across badly. When I saw Erik licking Cirie's fingers, I was reminded of her comment WAAAY back in one of the first episodes where she was hoping everyone would offer to carry her around camp, as if she were a queen (paraphrasing here). And then here's Erik worshipping at Cirie's hands. Great comedy!
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BlakeB717 |
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Posts: 883 (04/26/08 6:05 PM) Registered user |
Parvati's Tone:
I think Warrior has a good point. I felt, at least, that them showing betraying Jason anyways and Parvati deciding, you know what, no, seemed slightly positive. We have to remember how negative Ozzy became in the second half of his edit. Now, her scene with James I'm not sure... I don't think it was toned either way. Yes, James gave her negative SPV, but we also have to look at what the editors manipulated. They showed her straight up saying "James, I'm taking the girls to the end." They could have shown her say, to either James or Amanda at some time, that she was taking them and have a confessional about "girls all the way" or "I'm not taking them". Parvati hasn't been shown as a liar, which is usually N, she's been shown as a gamer, which is usually toneless. I do, however, think that the BWB is a negative alliance because its led by Natalie, but I'm not sure if all it's members are automatically N. This is an alliance they had to show, because it's probably going to be an All-Girls Final Five. Also, they gave Natalie the credit of being the evil, OTT, huge impact one. She's been neglected for so long, and BAM, out of no where, very negative, which is why I'm considering NN because the editors neglected her for so long in order to have this unexpected WOW-effect. Parvati got a confessional on how they operate, similar to her gameplay, but she's hidden by Natalie whose a distraction. I can see Natalie in the Finals and getting raked by the jury for her gameplay, and Parvati collecting votes because the jury doesn't hate her as much. Clearly they're over-exaggerating how Ozzy will not give Parvati his vote, and the viewers are going to see it as "wow, she's gonna have a tough time"... but logically, he's one of 7 (?) jury votes. Same with Todd. You thought he'd have a hard time winning because people like Jean-Robert were bitter with him, since he betrayed pretty much everyone. You can't put emphasis on "this being their game to lose". I think the only person ever who was shown being stupid and losing jury votes yet being quite CP was Stephenie in Guatamala, and she had so many scenes of her being rude (food with Lydia) and making kind of stupid moves; and she continuously talked about how she's screwed everyone over and is a good person to take to the end because she won't win. We also need to realize that this was when there was a Final 2. So, Parvati does not equal Stephenie. Anyways, I'll admit that I loathe Parvati. However, she's obviously my winner pick, and honestly, I felt sympathetic and sorry for her. Especially at TC when James called her out. Also you could find some sympathy in her talk with James because she was straight up honest with him and still wanted to be his friend. It was sweet in a malicious way (lol). I just felt like this was the episode where Parvati was shown a lot quieter and may become more positive after some realizations. I was seriously awaiting a "Parvati has a change of heart" in the Next Time On... segment. Maybe that was just me. Her tone? I'm going to rewatch.. but I think neutral makes the most sense. However N and M are also not completely off my list of possibilities. I've really got to rewatch and see if Parvati was CP. Oh, and Cirie's tone? Not sure, but I originally had her down as UTRN.. mainly because she's the one that narrated the entire "Where's his bag? Oh it's there! Look in there Nat! Is it there?" scene. And she called James pretty much stupid in her only confessional. Not sure, but Cirie was definitely not hidden from negativity this episode; she was apart of it. Does this warrant an N? Not sure yet. But I think Parvati and Cirie will probably receive the same tone from me, unless I give Parvati an M. There's just some random spewage of thoughts from me... I'll go and rewatch now! |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 8074 (04/26/08 6:17 PM) Registered User |
I agree with flf (quelle surprise) -it's all about the content and not the tone for Parvati. She's certainly not Positive because it's not about
that for her -not the agenda. I feel it's all about the ethical, morale quandry that she's put herself in -she's put herself in a negative
situation, and will she overcome in, gamewise and storywise. She ate the apple and has to watch out for Amanda now, "Game on," and Ozzy's ire.
I believe this will probably continue right up through the jury questioning. Is it redemptive, or eating crow. I think a lot will come down to both
Ozzy's and Eliza's vote, and both must have said something to her during the jury. I can see her winning from receiving Eliza's vote in a dramatic
fashion and thus justifying their early rocky relationship.
For me, Cirie is still in it, but have to give the edge to Pavarti. (Parvati: It's PAARRV-ati, cl, PARVati) you know, it's kinda like pee water. |
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GretchenIsMyGod |
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Posts: 3074 (04/26/08 6:57 PM) Registered User |
there must be some clause that if a returning player wins, it has to be someone who was chosen as a substitute.
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astroline |
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Posts: 1098 (04/26/08 7:11 PM) Registered user |
GretchenIsMyGod wrote: Parvati wasn't chosen as a substitute... and neither was Cirie... Amanda, maybe, but she's only #3 on my winners list. So what are you talking
about?
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