S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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AllMenAreIslands		#3921	[-]
Posts: 23517 (04/22/08 5:44 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: I'm pretty sure there was another confessional for James about Parvati wanting girl power, or a conversation between him and Amanda about it. That scene had no real strategic merit (not to be confused with Emmy Award Winner, Courtney Marit), yet it was included to showcase James as being somewhat annoying, but also showing Parvati as bratty. Again, that's why they gave JAMES the confessional, and not Parvati. They had plenty of other footage, so why show that particular scene, or not get a confessional from Parvati about it. The fact is that when you get shown lying around camp, sleeping, and someone is pissed off, you're typically getting a negative edit. A CPN isn't a bad thing, Blake, but right now, you're acting like you claimed I did in the episode where you thought Tracy should've gotten a CPP and I thought she merited a CP. It's not a big deal. Kitty, I think it was a scene with Amanda, not a confessional. Amanda told James that since the merge she & Parvy hadn't been as close. James replied that Parvati is in love with girl power. I thought it interesting because as edited, that scene came before a scene in which Amanda, James & Ozzy were shown discussing whether or not Cirie were still on board with the Boot Jason Plan. If Amanda & James had noticed Parvati distancing herself from them, why didn't either of them mention that to Ozzy?
dennydoylelives		#3922	[-]
Posts: 2219 (04/22/08 7:18 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: The scene had nothing to do with Parvati not being trusted by James. The scene was James getting pissed off because the girls sat around doing nothing when he'd been up all night, keeping the fire going, and then Parvati had to call HIM out. HE got the confessional about it, expressing HIS feelings of anger over Parvati's actions. Had Parvati gotten the comment, then it might've made her look better, but from the edit, she came off as lazy and ungrateful. People who are shown lying around while a worker is working are rarely if EVER not negative. Also, don't forget, back during the Eliza boot TC, Parvati had her "I've just got to say something" of piling on negativity to the first juror. Parvati is getting moments throughout the season, where despite making the right moves, she manages to say something to make the situation worse for her in the end, because she just has to say something. If the story is how Parvati loses, (and for those of you who are beating the Parvati wins drum, and want to block out every other thought, I said IF), these are the types of moments the jurors are going to throw back in her face. So when Parvati trumpets her excellent social game, (and she will based on the Eliza boot TC), you can be damned sure that James is going to question her bitching about his working while she's trying to get her beauty rest, and Amanda is going to question her about making alliances on her behalf without her permission. Now I'm not saying she can't win. She's one of two people with an edit that can arguably win. Foundations for how she wins and how she loses are both present in her edit. As for the specific scene in question, they are both negative, and I don't see why the argument is being made that only one can be negative. As I said on Friday, James was being a passive aggressive bitch, and Parvati was being a lazy bitch. Two bitches = two N tones. Also, don't forget the girls were STILL sleeping when the others got back from the reward. So, while hungover, the other group woke up, had breakfast, got to the boat, took a boat ride, and finally arrived back at camp before the girls got up. Not exactly an argument to say the N wasn't deserved. The editors did make the choice to show the girls still laying down when the others arrived at camp. There are many ways around showing that if they really wanted the negativity to only touch James, including showing just the footage of the girls after they had gotten up, and showing facial reactions of those who didn't go on reward while the reward people were talking.
Warrior		#3923	[-]
Posts: 2562 (04/22/08 8:07 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	They showed thunder, lighting and rain...what did James want them to go do? Get up and keep him company. This was clearly an edit that was there to cast negativity on James not Parvati nor both. James alone. Last Edited By: Warrior 04/22/08 8:13 AM. Edited 1 times.
Relynn		#3924	[-]
Posts: 248 (04/22/08 9:48 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Warrior wrote: They showed thunder, lighting and rain...what did James want them to go do? Get up and keep him company. This was clearly an edit that was there to cast negativity on James not Parvati nor both. James alone. Well, we see James gathering water, so that's something they could do.. Here's another thing, if it was raining, where was James suppose to go and do that work.
Warrior		#3925	[-]
Posts: 2563 (04/22/08 10:05 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	What did he need water for...it was RAINING. James didn't need to do anything...he could have rested...
Relynn		#3926	[-]
Posts: 249 (04/22/08 10:08 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Warrior wrote: What did he need water for...it was RAINING. James didn't need to do anything...he could have rested... Maybe so they could drink, cook, etc..
Warrior		#3927	[-]
Posts: 2564 (04/22/08 10:31 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Why not just set the bucket out in the rain?
OnlyTheHunter		#3928	[-]
Posts: 1473 (04/22/08 10:57 AM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Just watch the scene again. Close up angles, mid shots, wide shots, all of James doing this that and the other to wake them up with noise. Not by prodding anyone or asking, but to make a ruckus. And more ruckus. And more ruckus. By the time Parvati said something, I was telling the tv, "We get it!" James might be frustrated, but the accent was still on his social inability to handle them properly. He complained to the camera but not with any one of them. It make none of the girls look great, but the balance made James look bad as well. He is a social issue. At least he laughs at himself. To egg on Alexis and Natalie seemed harsh (when it could just be a natural tone of voice that we don't see enough of and misread it) but when he dunked himself, we was gracious to Alexis and we get that he just can't say the right things. Michael
scepticA		#3929	[-]
Posts: 1341 (04/22/08 11:00 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	why not set the bucket out in the rain? let's say that in the next hour there was like a half inch of rain. That's pretty strong rain! That meant that after an hour there would be a half inch of water in the bucket. Not exactly enough to fill the ol' swimming pool. James was bitchy - he wanted some external validation for staying up most of the night - just a nice 'thank you' - and wasn't getting it so he threw a mini-tantrum. Parv was bitchy - the guy was up all night tending the fire to keep the bugs away and her response was, "We're trying to sleep here." It's a POV matter. Neither came out too well. Of course, that means neither of them could ever ever win..........
Warrior		#3930	[-]
Posts: 2565 (04/22/08 11:07 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If the intent was to make Parvati look negative then why show the rain? Walking out in a lightning storm with a metal bucket in you hand is pure stupidity. They couldn't have needed water that bad. Last Edited By: Warrior 04/22/08 11:16 AM. Edited 2 times.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#3931	[-]
Posts: 1206 (04/22/08 11:49 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The scene was definitely intended to make James look bad. Otherwise, the scene would have begun with him working away rather than having it be shown that he deliberately chose to start making noise around the girls. Combined with the rest of his episode, which was clearly negative, this shouldn't actually be much of a stretch to make. That said, the girls, particularly Parvati who was singled out by James, didn't come off much better. Was it intended negative? Who knows? I do think the scene was more about James, and in particular his relationship with Parvati, than anything else. That said, the editors didn't do anything to lessen the negative impact of the scene for Parvati either, including the keeping of James' reference to being up all night. Parvati's strategic choice this episode was edited neutrally, probably mostly because it was the result the audience was supposed to favor, but that doesn't mean she can't come off negatively for other reasons. Her immunity win did not receive positive treatment. No one congratulates her - in fact the credit is given to the other players who talked Jason down (a generally negative act since it is clear that most do not intend to keep their word regardless of what they later decide).
scepticA		#3932	[-]
Posts: 1342 (04/22/08 11:52 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	TLS wrote: That said, the girls, particularly Parvati who was singled out by James, didn't come off much better. Was it intended negative? Who knows? I do think the scene was more about James, and in particular his relationship with Parvati, than anything else. That said, the editors didn't do anything to lessen the negative impact of the scene for Parvati either, including the keeping of James' reference to being up all night. Parvati's strategic choice this episode was edited neutrally, probably mostly because it was the result the audience was supposed to favor, but that doesn't mean she can't come off negatively for other reasons. Her immunity win did not receive positive treatment. No one congratulates her - in fact the credit is given to the other players who talked Jason down (a generally negative act since it is clear that most do not intend to keep their word regardless of what they later decide). Nice summation!
craig		#3933	[-]
Posts: 12883 (04/22/08 12:10 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"Her immunity win did not receive positive treatment." C'mon, were saw for taking about the effects it took on her shoulder. She contributed to talking Jason down, and wasn't shown as obviously planning to snake him as almost everyone else was.
Kitty Pryde1		#3934	[-]
Posts: 3675 (04/22/08 12:13 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	She was also shown as arrogant in saying that the tribe "loser" had "no friends".
astroline		#3935	[-]
Posts: 1085 (04/22/08 12:20 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The bias level in here is getting ridiculous. I know I shouldn't judge since I was a little biased with Jaime last season and Tracy (& earlier on, Jason) this season, but craig, what you're saying about Parvati in the endurance challenge does not make her P, at all, in any way shape or form. She won the challenge, we're supposed to respect her as a competitor (although most people did already since Parvati's always been a good challenge competitor), but that does not make her P. Doing good in challenges does not make you P, otherwise Sherea would have had a couple P's last season. I'm surprised I actually have to say this. ETA: I agree about the James & Parvati scene too. At first, I thought it was supposed to make Parvati look bad because she was sleeping while James was doing work (although it did seem overly loud and annoying), especially when she woke up to confront James. But when it showed James talking about cussing somebody out, I knew the intent was none for Parvati and all just about James reaching his breaking point for that morning. And speaking of Jaime, when the hell are her & Courtney ever gonna get final ratings on the China chart?! Last Edited By: astroline 04/22/08 12:25 PM. Edited 2 times.
craig		#3936	[-]
Posts: 12884 (04/22/08 12:41 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	At first, I thought it was supposed to make Parvati look bad because she was sleeping while James was doing work (although it did seem overly loud and annoying), especially when she woke up to confront James. But when it showed James talking about cussing somebody out, I knew the intent was none for Parvati and all just about James reaching his breaking point for that morning. So you're saying that if we voted now you'd change your vote and Parvati would be Neu? That would make it a close call and the WD votes would be 3-0 for Neu.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#3937	[-]
Posts: 1207 (04/22/08 12:50 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oh, please, Craig. You should know that if the only reference to pain and suffering comes from the person experiencing it, it generally loses its sympathetic factor. In some cases, it could even come off as whining. There's no objective way to watch the episode and think we're supposed to feel bad for Parvati because she won the immunity challenge. If anything, we're supposed to feel bad for Jason being tricked into giving up. As for her intentions, you are totally off base. Yes, she eventually does vote to remove Ozzy instead of Jason, but it isn't like we got confessionals going, "I'd like to vote off Jason, but I gave him my word I wouldn't." Instead, it was, "I know I need to vote off Ozzy in order to win, but I worry about how that makes me look with my alliance."
briand73		#3938	[-]
Posts: 57 (04/22/08 1:23 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: "Her immunity win did not receive positive treatment." C'mon, were saw for taking about the effects it took on her shoulder. She contributed to talking Jason down, and wasn't shown as obviously planning to snake him as almost everyone else was. For your comment on Parvati not planning on snaking Jason, I'd even go a step farther. Parvati seemed honestly surprised that anyone was going to vote for Jason after promising they wouldn't. I don't want to give her too much credit, but it seemed to me that it never occurred to her to not keep her word. She should get some credit for that. The effects the challenge had on her shoulder should be a non-issue. We weren't shown that for tone, we were shown that to demonstrate how close Jason was to winning that challenge. Parvati couldn't last much longer so Jason making the deal was the only way she wins that challenge. I don't know if the point was to show how tough she is, or how bad a judge Jason is, but the point isn't to make us feel sympathy for her. ETA: On the whole James/Parvati sleeping scene, I agree that both James and Parvati came off negatively in that scene, but I don't think this one scene should be enough to call a negative tone for either of them.
AllMenAreIslands		#3939	[-]
Posts: 23518 (04/22/08 1:28 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Warrior wrote: Why not just set the bucket out in the rain? That's what I've always wondered. Maybe what they need to do is devise a method to catch water from various sources and channel it into a single bucket. How about from a tarpaulin into bamboo channelling? LOL - this part of the "living out there" is what would appeal to me - trying to find ways to utilize what nature gives you.
Warrior		#3940	[-]
Posts: 2566 (04/22/08 1:52 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And speaking of Jaime, when the hell are her & Courtney ever gonna get final ratings on the China chart?! astro, what are they, I will fix the chart.

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S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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