S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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astroline		#3781	[-]
Posts: 1079 (04/19/08 2:54 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	No offense Blake, but I don't exactly believe a lot of what you say this season. I still like you and value your opinion, but you WERE backing Alexis for a long time and getting bent out of shape about it. You reminded me of myself back in Fiji with Cassie, it's really like we switched roles this season. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm just saying. Now you're all of a sudden backing Parvati 100% and it's just weird. I've been backing Parvati 100% the entire time, she's been my #1 winner pick every single episode except for Episode 2, and I haven't even bashed the Cirie supporters and claimed it was impossible for Parvati to not win. Either way, both Parvati & Cirie both have great cases for winners. They're both making it to the end, and at least one is facing the jury, but it depends if it's going to be Parvati with her Chris-like edit (with hints of Jenna & Todd), or Cirie with her high-visibility strategic CP edit that once again proves to be successful. I still like Amanda's edit. It actually is one of the better ones left, which is surprising, but it really is. Anyway, final ratings for astro... Dabu Alexis - UTR2 Amanda - MOR3 Cirie - CPP3 Erik - OTTP3 James - MORN3 Jason - CPP4 Natalie - CP2 Ozzy - MORN4 Parvati - CPN4 Winners... 1. Parvati 2. Cirie -huge gap- 3. Amanda
BlakeB717		#3782	[-]
Posts: 867 (04/19/08 3:09 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	astro, that's just insulting. Either you're saying that I'm spoiled out stupid. Neither which is true or polite. I may be posting less this season, but I'm still working by butt of rewatching episodes over and over. I don't deserve a "your input means nothing to me". I disagree with your ratings 90% of the time, but I still take what you post and check and see if I can see what you see. As for us "switching places", HUH? You backed Cassandra after the merger. I backed Alexis in the first 5 episodes, and Parvati was my #2 the whole time. In Episode 6+ Parvati was my #1, and Alexis was my #3. I was giving reasons as to why we shouldn't eliminate Alexis, but she wasn't my pick. So please don't act like I had Parvati eliminated until like Episode 8 and out of no where she's my #1! That's just ridiculous. You have Amanda as your #3, so I wouldn't be judging if I were you. Alexis had a great edit in the first 3 episodes, in Episode 5 she became ignored and I knew it was the right time to drop her. Regardless, a good edgician (love that word) isn't someone who picked the winner. Anybody can pick someone and luck out. What makes someone good is correct analysis/foreshadowing of a person's edit. I don't think either you or I fall under that category. I also don't remember giving someone in Fij a CP2 after 4 sentences at a challenge. =\ PS: Don't take that as a bash, but wow, I was really insulted by that. And I haven't bashed any Cirie supporters with logical reasonings. She's still my #2 pick and is far from being eliminated. I just see Parvati as a way better fit.
astroline		#3783	[-]
Posts: 1081 (04/19/08 3:13 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm sorry, Blake, I probably shouldn't have said anything. I guess I didn't articulate myself well enough, as usual lol. I apologize, I didn't mean it that way. I'm sorry. I do respect your opinion and value your input, just the whole Alexis thing threw me off. I'm sorry! I know the CP2 for Natalie might seem strange, but I can't give her a CP1 or MOR1. She started the whole "I guarantee" thing which was really memorable. I called my mom today to talk about the episode, and even 2 days later, it was one of the first things she remembered. That definitely means something to me. I know she'll probably get stuck with an UTR1, but I feel like her impact was stronger than that. But who knows. I apologize for the Cassie / Alexis comparasions. I didn't realize the context was so different. Again, I'm sorry Blake.
BlakeB717		#3784	[-]
Posts: 868 (04/19/08 3:25 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AWE! astro don't do this to me! Now I feel bad. Don't apologize! But I'm glad you see the difference. As for Natalie, this is why she was not CP or MOR. -She had no confessionals. Back in EP3 people gave Parvati CP, and she had no confessionals. Same thing for Natalie. You can't be CP without confessionals! CP is a developed player, where we learn about their thought process, get insight on their life or game. Natalie was not developed. She initiated a strategic move, sure, but that is an S1. -I think MOR1 is ridiculous too, but it's way more logical than CP. Natalie was clearly neglected in this episode, so if you feel she was CP then CP + UTR = MOR. It's in the guidelines. More reason as to why her CP makes no sense. -If you feel she had more impact than a UTR1, then give her a UTR2! -The editors showed Natalie saying that because someone initiated that scene. It would be a HUH-moment if they all started saying "I guarentee". They have to show what they have on film; they can't make up what's been filmed, unless Survivor turns into an animation. You have to think about the editing intent. They showed Natalie because they had to, not because they manipulated her to be shown. But that's just me. Go and read on the 1st page the rules for CP, MOR, and UTR. It'll probably refresh you on which is appropriate (I do it all the time, so don't think I'm saying 'you're stupid, go read').
TheIsraeliDevil	Ep. 10	#3785	[-]
Posts: 2121 (04/19/08 3:42 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	That has to be one of Survivor's best episodes ever. I thought Cirie might win when watching the episode, but OTH's great reasoning put me back on the Parvati bandwagon.
AllMenAreIslands		#3786	[-]
Posts: 23505 (04/19/08 4:05 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Blake, I do hope AnneZob is wrong that Cirie wins, but in all fairness I do feel she was citing editorial points to make her case. Great example is the number of confessionals. Cirie's count is nicely in the range of previous winners as of this same point in the game, while Parvati's is below the lowest to date (Danni's). Also the point about negativity: Parvati's is beginning to feel like real reasons for why people won't vote for her, whereas Cirie's negativity has been confined to confessionals. I don't like these facts but they are interesting points that are editing-derived. I would love it if these points are swept away over the next few episodes, with Cirie disappearing into the woodwork, or better still getting booted, with two non-entities editing-wise being taken to the Final 3 alongside Parvati and the Jury feeling they have no choice but to award the best true player. The way things are shaping up, the only way I can see Cirie losing if she's facing the Jury, is if she is suffering from fatigue and PMS and is just snappish & bad-tempered, making people dislike her at that moment. It's unlikely but not impossible.
craig		#3787	[-]
Posts: 12842 (04/19/08 4:27 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The editors haven't given us any reasons for Parvati losing jury votes beyond what a bit of game logic and foresight would predict from ep.3. Obviously she must get rid of Ozzy, etc. Ozzy and James's negativity last episode is a good sign for a Parvati or Cirie win. They were P heroes the first time. Cirie's problem if that Parvati is likely to have the mastermind credibility to win if the jury if largely non-bitter. Not to mention the jury will be full of twenty-somethings with more in common with Parv, and a majority of New A's who spent time with her. On the other hand, if the jury if bitter I could see them voting for Option C (Alexis?), but I don't see an edgically viable Option C candidate likely to win in this manner. I also think Parvati remembers that the mastermind won S13, and the coattail rider got zero votes. She is more likely to boot Cirie, a competitor for mastermind credibility, over coattail riders. I don't see her keeping "Todd" over "Denise." I also think a jury of ASS and Fans is likely to reward a stategixc player, like the BBAS jury did in voting for Chlltown. Last Edited By: craig 04/19/08 4:34 PM. Edited 3 times.
Jedijake		#3788	[-]
Posts: 5051 (04/19/08 4:56 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I know one thing: 3 people were left out of the vote and they ALL blatantly lied to Jason. I can't wait to see how things are handled in the after math of the vote. Interesting point! (and one that had not been brought up yet). Erik, James, and Amanda all lied to Jason's face. Now Jason is still there and those 3 will be pissed at those who did NOT lie. How ironic! Yet nobody other than Ozzy or Jason was ever mentioned as a possible boot.
Phoenix1269		#3789	[-]
Posts: 138 (04/19/08 5:59 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	edited out because i was having a moment of bitchiness. Last Edited By: Phoenix1269 04/19/08 6:03 PM. Edited 1 times.
Phoenix1269		#3790	[-]
Posts: 139 (04/19/08 6:02 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	colleenlover wrote: I don't get all this bickering at all. It gives me a headache. talking about strategy and who will vote for whom -when we only have 44 minutes of a three hour day shown to us, and times three hours by nine players= 27 hours. We don't know anything, only what is shown to us. For CL, Parvati or Cirie wins. How can I say Parvati doesn't lose big or win big -both setups are there. Again, at this stage it's a coin-flip. I need more info, plain and simple. What's the worst that happens? I didn't pinpoint who would win a game show? I can live with that disgrace. A lot of people at sucks like to fight day in and day out, it must be exhausting. i love you CL. agreed agreed agreed ETA: As an aside on tone re: Cirie and Parvati... both yesterday and today I has a couple of appointments and work etc, and survivor came up... and everyone (so between work, massage, hair and friends... we are at about 20 average survivor watchers), ... every one of them said they can't stand parvati, and felt she was really coming off as irritating and negative and entitled and princessy. On the other hand... they are all enjoying Cirie... they thinks he is smart and playing a great game. AND.. this surprised me.....everyone was DISAPPOINTED that Ozzy got voted off. When I asked who they thought was responsble... they all said that while they knew it was Cirie's plan, they couldn't fault her for it... she's playing smart, but they blamed Parvati for breaking her original alliance. Just thought i'd include this for interest sake... sometimes I forget that the average viewer sees things and feels things that we over analyze to death and ultimately miss the overall intended story or tone. Last Edited By: Phoenix1269 04/19/08 7:05 PM. Edited 1 times.
getting real		#3791	[-]
Posts: 1179 (04/19/08 6:57 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	What I've gotten from this recent episode is a further lesson in playing this game with friends, rather than strangers. There is a definite sense of expectancy from some players that because you developed some kind of post-game relationship with people, or even just share the knowledge of how this game operates, you should be entitled to be exempt from being blindsided or otherwise outwitted. I would not have expected Ozzy to be a Lex 2.0, but it appears that he is. Good observation, AMAI. In this case, it probably hurts Ozzy more because of how stridenly Parvati wooed and supported him as a winner in CI. It was one partnership that he would've expected to endure, like Ami & Eliza's. Re. the Cirie v Parvati debate, ever since the Yau ouster I've maintained that the doom prophet Jonathan's pronouncement of Parvati signing her death warrant by siding with Cirie is the key moment of the season. That's because it was so out of context with what happened and its inclusion, therefore, is extremely noteworthy. Given that I agree with those who believe that Cirie has not been invested with an end-game edit (neglect at key points, no explanation of reasons for immediate strategy), I think the significance of Jonathan's prophecy lies in Cirie 'killing' Paravati with her jury vote. ************************************************************************************** I don't get all this bickering at all. It gives me a headache. talking about strategy and who will vote for whom -when we only have 44 minutes of a three hour day shown to us, and times three hours by nine players= 27 hours. We don't know anything, only what is shown to us. For CL, Parvati or Cirie wins. How can I say Parvati doesn't lose big or win big -both setups are there. Again, at this stage it's a coin-flip. I need more info, plain and simple. What's the worst that happens? I didn't pinpoint who would win a game show? I can live with that disgrace. A lot of people at sucks like to fight day in and day out, it must be exhausting. i love you CL. agreed agreed agreed I think CL would've been much more inclined to join the debate if Eliza was still around.
Phoenix1269		#3792	[-]
Posts: 140 (04/19/08 7:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AMAI & GR wrote: What I've gotten from this recent episode is a further lesson in playing this game with friends, rather than strangers. There is a definite sense of expectancy from some players that because you developed some kind of post-game relationship with people, or even just share the knowledge of how this game operates, you should be entitled to be exempt from being blindsided or otherwise outwitted. I would not have expected Ozzy to be a Lex 2.0, but it appears that he is. Good observation, AMAI. In this case, it probably hurts Ozzy more because of how stridenly Parvati wooed and supported him as a winner in CI. It was one partnership that he would've expected to endure, like Ami & Eliza's. --- The relationship between Parvati and Ozzy was also reinforced /reminded by the E1 intro clip of Parvati with Ozzy and Yul in the hot tub. I also read somewhere that Ozzy and Parvati were supposed to be pretty tight and that Ozzy though to f her as a sister (an interview with Jonathan i think)... I agree whole heartedly that playing with friends is not a good idea... an d i would wager that Ozzy is primed to be Lex 2.0 over Parv.
Rational Player		#3793	[-]
Posts: 2 (04/19/08 7:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	By the chart of Strategy Guidelines, neither Cirie nor Parvati can win.
SFC		#3794	[-]
Posts: 277 (04/19/08 8:08 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Rational Player wrote: By the chart of Strategy Guidelines, neither Cirie nor Parvati can win. I assume you are eliminating Cirie with the S3 in Episode 3, remember Todd had one in Ep 6 in his season and for Parv's 4 S0's and 3 in a row, I think she get a tiny bit of slack for being on the invisible Airai Tribe
cindidindi76		#3795	[-]
Posts: 10070 (04/19/08 8:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	briand73 wrote: Is there anyone that can provide a screen capture of Alexis crossing her fingers during the promises to Jason? It isn't that I don't believe everybody who is saying she did it, but when I watched I thought it was Amanda. A screen capture would help put my mind at ease on the topic. I believe Amanda's hands were in front of her, because I initially thought it was her too, until they showed that.
Judge Macabre		#3796	[-]
Posts: 14 (04/19/08 8:20 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Phoenix1269 wrote: colleenlover wrote: I don't get all this bickering at all. It gives me a headache. talking about strategy and who will vote for whom -when we only have 44 minutes of a three hour day shown to us, and times three hours by nine players= 27 hours. We don't know anything, only what is shown to us. For CL, Parvati or Cirie wins. How can I say Parvati doesn't lose big or win big -both setups are there. Again, at this stage it's a coin-flip. I need more info, plain and simple. What's the worst that happens? I didn't pinpoint who would win a game show? I can live with that disgrace. A lot of people at sucks like to fight day in and day out, it must be exhausting. i love you CL. agreed agreed agreed ETA: As an aside on tone re: Cirie and Parvati... both yesterday and today I has a couple of appointments and work etc, and survivor came up... and everyone (so between work, massage, hair and friends... we are at about 20 average survivor watchers), ... every one of them said they can't stand parvati, and felt she was really coming off as irritating and negative and entitled and princessy. On the other hand... they are all enjoying Cirie... they thinks he is smart and playing a great game. AND.. this surprised me.....everyone was DISAPPOINTED that Ozzy got voted off. When I asked who they thought was responsble... they all said that while they knew it was Cirie's plan, they couldn't fault her for it... she's playing smart, but they blamed Parvati for breaking her original alliance. Just thought i'd include this for interest sake... sometimes I forget that the average viewer sees things and feels things that we over analyze to death and ultimately miss the overall intended story or tone.
BlakeB717		#3797	[-]
Posts: 869 (04/19/08 8:22 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Phoenix, that really means nothing. You have to go by what the editors intend the audience to interpret the edit, since even the editors cannot control how they take it.
Relynn		#3798	[-]
Posts: 223 (04/19/08 8:36 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: Phoenix, that really means nothing. You have to go by what the editors intend the audience to interpret the edit, since even the editors cannot control how they take it. But sometimes when it comes to negative vs positive the general audience is a lot better judges than we are. We over analazye this show, read all the interviews, and develop opinions and fans. However, the general audience watches the show once, and so they only go by what they see on their television. While I don't think the audience is necessarily right about who wins, I do think they are good judges on who is negative or positive. MB and the editors know by now, how to make someone positive or negative and their aim is to make this come accross to the general audience. But I don't get why they see Pavarti as that negative, because I think Pavarti's explanation was right on. She couldn't beat Ozzy in the final vote, and is she suppose to hand Ozzy the million? This being said one could argue that Pavarti caused a lot of her own problems by agreeing to align with Ozzy in the first place.
OnlyTheHunter		#3799	[-]
Posts: 1469 (04/19/08 8:59 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	It's hard at this point in Edgic. There are only two, or three depending on your inclinations, good candidates left. You can't solve it next week. The purpose of the rest of the show is to make it exciting as possible, and at the same time, prepare you for Final TC and the relationships that matter in it. Guess I'll repeat, Edgic does not predict jury votes. Don't do it. For every Erik voting for Amanda, there's Jean-Robert/Todd, Christy/Jenna, Jon/Sandra, Julie/Chris, Coby/Katie, Shane/Danielle, in spades to go around. The point is to look when you hear players who people are scared to face, who have unresolved issues, etc. They are facing the jury. Parvati's there. That's easy. Alexis is there, I think. Who cares about her being a motivational speaker, or a triple threat? If she's so ignored she can't face the jury, why throw that out? They spent a good 5 minutes with Erik on the reward but not one second convincing me why he would be in the F3 for any reason. Is Cirie? One thing bugs me. What's the last SPV about her that leads to the endgame? Maybe I'm just off, but I'm having trouble with it. She's in a first person game, she is eliminating the competition in her way. Where's the person concerned with Cirie getting there? I spent a long day with my kids, so I can't focus, but it's gnawing a bit. Alexis got more comments the last episode about the endgame than Cirie has most of the season. Doesn't mean Alexis wins, but it's an easier cue to picture her facing the jury. Last, get off someone being "Too Negative" to win this season. Too negative is OTTN, Judd, Fairplay. CPN is good. It's Rich. It's Todd. It's reasoned. Many for different reasons. (I actually liked Todd, but it added drama to the season. Rich was, well, Rich, have to work with that.) It's the one dimensional, unnessecary N that's a killer. Defendants can explain themselves to a jury, and sometimes are forgiven in court. It's the ones who cut symbols on their head and threaten the judge in open court that tend to be convicted before putting on a defense. Analogy being, Parvati is giving us reason for her moves, so we know them. Do I wish it had been Jonathon? As a fan, yes. But don't play Edgic emotionally. Parvati's game is clear, it's hers and it is on track. I haven't seen Cirie explain how she gets to the end yet. Nor why anyone other than Jonathon, who can't vote, put Cirie over her. Is that enough? Not normally. Michael
Jedijake		#3800	[-]
Posts: 5053 (04/19/08 9:00 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well for what it's worth, there's something we ALL have to admit. This season has the biggest debate about winners that we've had in a LONG time-if not forever.

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S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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