S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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Oowatanite		#3741	[-]
Posts: 5077 (04/18/08 10:31 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SFC wrote: Oo, I looked through the thread to see if I could prove you wrong, but after about 50 pages I couldn't find any. Sorry, my bad. You were right. Thank you, SFC. I read spoilers and that is why I don't post winner speculation in this thread, as per the wishes of most of the edgicers. So I was pretty confident that you wouldn't find any winner predictions by me. My main point was about Jedi's repetitive pronouncements about a possible Cirie win, and when he made a stupid comment about "obsessive" Parvati backers, I had to call him out.
JaMalle		#3742	[-]
Posts: 3875 (04/18/08 10:37 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ok my intial thoughts: Parvati - CP4(N) shown is somewhat untrustworthy. idk if the scene where James was waking up was supposed to look negatively on her or not... Who knows. Personally, I thought James was being obnoxious, but that could clearly be bias on my part. She weighed her options, and we see which side she went with. It's itneresting, that editing at TC made it seem as if SHE was the final decision maker. Jason - CPP idk about this one. I could see an M as well, but I think we were supposed to root for him. I could see some seeing his "God-like player" confessional as negative, but I didn't. He admitted feeling silly about the stick and took a big chance at the IC. In the end, I thought we were supposed to "want" him to stay, even though he came off as a bit naive. Natalie - UTR1 idk what you guys are giving her, but she's the one who offered Jason saftey in the first place. I noticed that. Alexis - UTR2 BITCH! Did you see her face?! lol Don't be so hastey next time! Cirie - CP4 or MOR4? idk which one. the strategy was there, but it was sort of just reported to us. It seemed like a Terry edit. Just strategy with some other narration. Maybe a nother watch will give me more of an idea of her edit. Ozzy - MOR4N he did pump Erik up a lot, but he came off putting down Jason when there was no need to. It sounded as if some people actually intended to keep their word to Jason (Amanda) but Ozzy pushed for everyone to break their word. He talked about ALL the food they got, and the girls complained about him. I guess he was somewhat negative, but even this was weak for me. James - MOR3N Making noise to wake up the girls. Ready to cuss people out after Parvati told him that he was obnoxious. Worried about Parv/Alexis/Natalie. Erik - OTT4P(P) HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE THIS KID?! Amanda - MOR2 or UTR3? She was definitely there and in the thick of things. Not as close to PArv and worried for Ozzy's sake at the hands of the girls (Alexis/Natalie/Parvati).
Jedijake		#3743	[-]
Posts: 5043 (04/18/08 10:40 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yep, she's a wannabe. It's going to be interesting to see how she handles herself in front of the jury if she makes it there. Parvati's running out of options to keep people around. She has to look to others who have backstabbed people and hope she's the lesser of evils. Can't keep Amanda around. Amanda's well-liked. She hasn't pissed a single person off and she's loveable. Gotta get rid of her. Can't keep James around. For the same reasons Ozzy had to go, James has to go. However, James is more of a threat because he's more humble than Ozzy was. Gotta get rid of James. Can't keep Jason or Erik around. Jason was the town idiot but with the ouster of Ozzy, he's now the biggest immunity threat. Gotta toss him first chance. Erik is the loveable, wide-eyed kid who everyone likes. Can't keep him around. Not sure about Natalie. Alexis is the biggest female threat. Can't keep her around. Probably, any fan would be seen as an underdog who made it against all odds. Can't keep any of them. That leaves Cirie. We aren't seeing many opinions of Cirie from the others. None whatsoever. Nobody is talking about their chances with Cirie-interesting isn't it? However, if Cirie were to choose another backstabber to go the distance with, Cirie would be the best bet. Cirie is the one person Parvati should consider sticking with. And Cirie knows this, I can almost guarentee.
fat little fingers		#3744	[-]
Posts: 5473 (04/18/08 10:41 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Personally, I'm glad for the holdouts because 1) Parvati is the obvious Edgic winner now, and 2) I'm always wrong, so at least someone around here will be right. LOL. But at this point it does feel like Parvati is the one who will be in danger of having to apologize to people she helped put on the jury, AMAI, I still say that trying to figure out how the jury will vote is never accurate. Those jury votes have a way of swinging wildly in different directions, based on the smallest of things, like a good bs speech or a good apology. Someone who can pull off a good apology can sail through an angry jury. The thing is, everyone who sits in the f-3 or f-2 has jurors pissed for one thing or another.
AllMenAreIslands		#3745	[-]
Posts: 23496 (04/18/08 10:56 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	flf, you cannot always be wrong. you must be right about Parvati this time. Please????? Apologies usually don't work. But they have once in a while, for example Jenna managed to apologize and still win, but I reckon that's because she was up against someone whose apology was so awful. In reading Ozzy's stuff in the Insider, and just contemplating the whole situation of his blindside, I know he was quite happy to lie to Jason along with everyone else about giving a guaranee of safety to get the food that would be forthcoming, then turning around to blindside the kid. Maybe it's acceptable when the person you're lying to isn't a "friend" from outside the game.
AnneZob		#3746	[-]
Posts: 79 (04/18/08 11:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AllMenAreIslands wrote: flf, you cannot always be wrong. you must be right about Parvati this time. Please????? Apologies usually don't work. But they have once in a while, for example Jenna managed to apologize and still win, but I reckon that's because she was up against someone whose apology was so awful. In reading Ozzy's stuff in the Insider, and just contemplating the whole situation of his blindside, I know he was quite happy to lie to Jason along with everyone else about giving a guaranee of safety to get the food that would be forthcoming, then turning around to blindside the kid. Maybe it's acceptable when the person you're lying to isn't a "friend" from outside the game. I think Ozzie does believe this as he talks in an interview about his different responses to different people voting him out. Basically if you weren't really tight with Ozzy and voted him out he's OK it. However if you were tight with Ozzy and voted him out it is a case of I'm going to screw you at final TC. At least Ozzie isn't as hypocritical as I feared he might be. Last Edited By: AnneZob 04/18/08 11:09 PM. Edited 2 times.
fat little fingers		#3747	[-]
Posts: 5475 (04/18/08 11:10 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	but I reckon that's because she was up against someone whose apology was so awful. Sandra and Lil was one of the best. Lil just needed to own her game, but she couldn't bring herself to do it and she got roasted for hypocrisy. (Actually, I think Lil was so exhausted that she couldn't string a proper sentence together at the final jury.) China was very similar. Amanda tried her 'sweet lil ol me' number once too often and got seriously called on it. Todd did the "I'm-not-apologizing" apology and got big points for saying straight up that he played his game.
OnlyTheHunter		#3748	[-]
Posts: 1468 (04/18/08 11:30 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Okay, let's delve into this a little further. Lil, roasted in FTC for hypocracy and for her teary eyed was is edited...as teary eyed and struggling with lying. Sandra, given votes for telling things straight was edited...as telling things straight. Yul is called the Godfather at FTC, gets the Godfather mentions during the game prominently shown in his edit. Ozzy plays the surfer dude instead of opening up as shown, and wouldn't ya know, at FTC his lack of social game was a difference maker. Steph cost herself votes one by one, Danni was a cool chick who benefitted. Aras was an undeserving goofball but more deserving than Danielle, and his character tried to grow where hers was never shown to. Todd and Amanda and Courtney are obvious. Most every time, the people facing the jury line up with the comments made about them at FTC. Parvati as shown to us weighed her options, gave them thought. Explained them, even. She was not portrayed as Ozzy was, going after someone maliciously. Let's see how she's grilled when facing the jury (she will, I think most if not all here agree, right?) but based on what's shown so far, she shouldn't appear clueless. Have to go, but maybe I can make a better point later. Michael
Die Apokalyptischen Reiter		#3749	[-]
Posts: 531 (04/19/08 12:22 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	fat little fingers wrote: I still say that trying to figure out how the jury will vote is never accurate. Never say never. Number of times you can predict who wins Survivor (8): Kim and Ethan. Ethan wins Jenna and Matthew, Jenna wins Sandra and Lill, Sandra wins. Chris and Twila, Chris wins. Tom and Katie, Tom wins. Stephenie and Danni, Danni wins. Aras and Danielle, Aras wins Earl, Dreamz and Cassandra, Earl wins Number of votes is irrelevant, if there's a F2 goat, you win.
Kitty Pryde1		#3750	[-]
Posts: 3629 (04/19/08 12:32 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Jenna was, in no way, guaranteed.
Die Apokalyptischen Reiter		#3751	[-]
Posts: 532 (04/19/08 12:35 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Jenna was, in no way, guaranteed. It was. It wasn't guaranteed in editing. That's why it was a surprise to everyone.
AnneZob		#3752	[-]
Posts: 85 (04/19/08 1:00 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OnlyTheHunter wrote: Okay, let's delve into this a little further. Lil, roasted in FTC for hypocracy and for her teary eyed was is edited...as teary eyed and struggling with lying. Sandra, given votes for telling things straight was edited...as telling things straight. Yul is called the Godfather at FTC, gets the Godfather mentions during the game prominently shown in his edit. Ozzy plays the surfer dude instead of opening up as shown, and wouldn't ya know, at FTC his lack of social game was a difference maker. Steph cost herself votes one by one, Danni was a cool chick who benefitted. Aras was an undeserving goofball but more deserving than Danielle, and his character tried to grow where hers was never shown to. Todd and Amanda and Courtney are obvious. Most every time, the people facing the jury line up with the comments made about them at FTC. Parvati as shown to us weighed her options, gave them thought. Explained them, even. She was not portrayed as Ozzy was, going after someone maliciously. Let's see how she's grilled when facing the jury (she will, I think most if not all here agree, right?) but based on what's shown so far, she shouldn't appear clueless. Have to go, but maybe I can make a better point later. Michael Interesting how you point out the fact you can describe the previous winners in a single line each. That is because, as someone pointed out, a winner's edit is consistent throughout the season (even if it is consistently under the radar) and Parvati's is far from consistent. The thing with Parvati's edit is someone pointed out earlier she is inconsistent. She pops up as this big thing then has a large string of hardly being visible and when they do trot her out to make us remember her instead of giving her insightful strategic things (which would fit with her hard hitting I am a tough player comments) to say they give us fluffy things. Then suddenly at the merge she pops up as this massive thing again. We have rammed down our throats that she is a strong player is in it for the win, in your face etc. but given the chance to choose between flirting and strategy the editors choose flirting, given a chance to show her taking control of the game we see Cirie orchestrating the boots and given chances to show her inner thoughts in confessionals they give her personal face time more akin to a UTR winner like Danni or Amber. Basically as someone else said her edit is all over the place. Also, we are told that yeah she's going to win and she's a strong player etc. etc. but the editors don't bother to actually go to the bother of backing it up. We are told things not shown things. And that's not good. And actually Parvati does appear clueless. She has no idea about Amanda's feelings for example which we are shown in detail. She shows no clues of seeing that James is beginning to get annoyed with her. And yes it is shown that she sees she is in a hot pickle but we don't see her doing anything to try to mitigate the damage. In fact, with regards to Amanda, she doesn't even know the full extent of the hot pickle she is in. She knows she is in a hot pickle but she is not trying to take control of the situation and try to get herself out of it. Instead she is shown as just taking Cirie's lead, possibly as Jonathan said earlier, like a sheep to a slaughter. She is not taking control of the situation and given her "I am a strong player" declarations that is big warning sign that something is not quite right.
BlakeB717		#3753	[-]
Posts: 865 (04/19/08 1:51 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ignores all the straw-grasing Cirie wins posts from her fans So, who is Parvati sleeping with flf? (from your post a couple pages back)
AllMenAreIslands		#3754	[-]
Posts: 23497 (04/19/08 6:49 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AnneZob wrote: Interesting how you point out the fact you can describe the previous winners in a single line each. That is because, as someone pointed out, a winner's edit is consistent throughout the season (even if it is consistently under the radar) and Parvati's is far from consistent. The thing with Parvati's edit is someone pointed out earlier she is inconsistent. She pops up as this big thing then has a large string of hardly being visible and when they do trot her out to make us remember her instead of giving her insightful strategic things (which would fit with her hard hitting I am a tough player comments) to say they give us fluffy things. Then suddenly at the merge she pops up as this massive thing again. We have rammed down our throats that she is a strong player is in it for the win, in your face etc. but given the chance to choose between flirting and strategy the editors choose flirting, given a chance to show her taking control of the game we see Cirie orchestrating the boots and given chances to show her inner thoughts in confessionals they give her personal face time more akin to a UTR winner like Danni or Amber. Basically as someone else said her edit is all over the place. Also, we are told that yeah she's going to win and she's a strong player etc. etc. but the editors don't bother to actually go to the bother of backing it up. We are told things not shown things. And that's not good. And actually Parvati does appear clueless. She has no idea about Amanda's feelings for example which we are shown in detail. She shows no clues of seeing that James is beginning to get annoyed with her. And yes it is shown that she sees she is in a hot pickle but we don't see her doing anything to try to mitigate the damage. In fact, with regards to Amanda, she doesn't even know the full extent of the hot pickle she is in. She knows she is in a hot pickle but she is not trying to take control of the situation and try to get herself out of it. Instead she is shown as just taking Cirie's lead, possibly as Jonathan said earlier, like a sheep to a slaughter. She is not taking control of the situation and given her "I am a strong player" declarations that is big warning sign that something is not quite right. It is quite possible that Parvati's efforts to win are tied up in several major moves, which moves cannot have more said about them besides showing them now, and then hearing how she explains herself in front of the jury. The big moves so far include: 1. Making the showmancer alliance. 2. Making a new alliance with herself, Amanda & Cirie. 3. Making a new alliance with Natalie for herself, Nat and the absent Amanda & Alexis. I think the next few boots will leave us with a final 5 of Parvati, Amanda, Cirie, Alexis and Natalie. Five Girls in the Final 5. James could be the last man standing, with Parvati having taken him as far as she could (lol.) Then Alexis is booted at F5, Natalie at F4 and there's the final 3 that we saw in the canoe back in Ep 2 or 3. Cirie may well be a mastermind, but can she sell her strategy to the jury? Since this game IS a social game more than simply mental or physical, being able to sell what you did to a majority of those you did it to is much more important than just being able to make the moves. We have been shown Cirie's negativity in the DR; what if she lets some of that negativity out in front of the jury, perhaps throwing a few snide remarks at Ozzy thinking everyone is down with that? Many on the jury remain Ozzy fans, and would not take kindly to such badmouthing. Cirie might get Eliza's vote, but no-one else's. There's got to be a reason we've seen so much negativity from Cirie. Amanda could be in the F3 as well, and since she was kept out of the loop, she may easily earn Ozzy's vote. But if she is a wet mess like last time, she won't be able to earn any other votes because she actually doesn't have much of a game to sell in the first place. Perhaps she even takes the opportunity to whine about Ozzy's boot, giving Parvati the chance to explain why it was done the way it was, even if it was Cirie's idea not to tell her, for example. In that way it may appear to the jury, just as it was edited to appear to us, that Parvati was the "mastermind." So, where will the other votes go? To Parvati.
Jedijake		#3755	[-]
Posts: 5045 (04/19/08 6:50 AM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I don't feel as though I have to defend my statements about obsessive Parvati fans. That doesn't mean that everyone who says Parvati wins is being obsessive. At the same time, there are quite a few obsessive Cirie fans as well. However, my defense for Cirie as the winner is hardly obsessive. Believe me, I would love for there to be a fan with an even slightly winner edit. If there was, I'd probably be backing them as I did for Alexis until Mikey B was booted. That ended that and I stood behind Cirie and haven't had a reason to back down from her support. Parvati, Eliza, and Ozzy were all contenders soon after that, but none nearly as high as Cirie in my rankings. Parvati still strikes me as a combination of Stephanie (Guatamala) and Dreamz. Dreamz' betrayal was much more blatant, but it's about the level of apology. Parvati's having to apologize wouldn't necessarily be a big deal if she were going up against someone who was either (a) despised by all and we knew it (Clay, Twila, Matt) or (b) was being hidden from us as a coattail rider and not really playing the game. Even (b) is not a guarentee since Amber may have been seen as a coattail rider by some and Danni was invisible to us. The problem Parvati has in a possible finale with Cirie is that Cirie has not been shown to us to be disliked by ANYONE and cannot be construed in any fashion as a coattail rider who is not playing the game. There will be support for Cirie and there will be protest against Parvati. I don't see it the other way around. Unless the producers are REALLY messing us up on purpose (hasn't happened in the past few seasons), that's my opinion of what's going on.
Warrior		#3756	[-]
Posts: 2556 (04/19/08 8:21 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AllMenAreIslands, I think that you are "dead on" in your prediction of the final 5 and out come but I think that Erik will be the last man standing ...we will see.
AllMenAreIslands		#3757	[-]
Posts: 23499 (04/19/08 8:57 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Thanks, Warrior. It could even be Jason who manages to win II several times, and unlike last time, does NOT give in to any promises of safety. It wouldn't bother me to see Alexis out ahead of Jason, actually
Zesty66		#3758	[-]
Posts: 202 (04/19/08 9:35 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If your predictions are true, AMAI, I think Amanda will come 2nd. Edgically and Logically. She would for sure have Ozzy's vote, most likely Erik's and a good chance with James'. One of Parvati or Cirie will win, the other will come 3rd.
crzypunk2004		#3759	[-]
Posts: 3270 (04/19/08 9:52 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm starting to think a Amanda/Cirie/Parvati F3 as well, the 3 made a F3 alliance way back in ep 3 and it hasn't been brought up since then.
fat little fingers		#3760	[-]
Posts: 5476 (04/19/08 11:12 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	DAR: Never say never. Number of times you can predict who wins Survivor (8): Ah, but at what point in the season do you make this "prediction"? F-3?, f-2? There's a lot of story to shape the characters between now and the final jury. One ep and one sentence can change everything for a player. My point is, by merge, you can't go by the story as presented to predict the outcome. Blake: Parvati's throwing a leg over James. Call it what you will.

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S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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