S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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OnlyTheHunter		#3101	[-]
Posts: 1427 (04/04/08 10:12 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Give me time for a full random thoughts post, I got to watch my son tonight instead of a rewatch. I'll take that. Let's not go nuts over Ami, she's gone. Mixed is fine, N is fine. The water from the eyes at the end were a comeuppance, plain and simple. Reaped what she sowed. TLS said "That position isn't supported by reality." We don't want reality, we want to interpret the edit. If the show didn't take pains to say ying or yang, it isn't relevant. Erik did nothing but use his only weapon, which the audience sees was the truth. It worked. Ami couldn't use it to her advantage, but adding in the scene of her thanking him solidly put the edit in favor of seeing Erik's side. Ami couldn't get out of her lies. Simple. I picked Alexis after ep 5, until she's voted out she is my pick. It's a tribute to the editors and my way of working. If they got me by then, they got me. Congrats. I would choose Parvati now. There is no other legitimate option in my view. If the preview holds, then Alexis may start intimating Parvati's game. Well well. Parvati, I loved the dead to me quote. It sets her apart from the couples in the viewer's minds. When the others gun for James and Amanda (who we know can't win) and Ozzy (who at least I say can't), Parvati has now played above them. Done something else. That's good, diabolical or not. The viewer clearly sees her distinctly from the couples AND Cirie. That's Aras outside Casaya, personified again. Very, very good. Chaperone, trust me I get your concerns. Anytime you want daddy advice or commiseration, find me. You do not want me doing your job though. Math and I were divorced long before my other divorce was final. Will look into the rest later. See ya. Michael
Francois40		#3102	[-]
Posts: 2097 (04/04/08 11:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	My personal suggestion/nomination is for Francois to consider taking over. A gifted math and stats guy, you have those tools to do it. I'm not sure how technical you are, though, so I'd of course leave it up to you to decide, and I hold you in high regards. God Awmighty, of all the names I expected to see there, mine was NOT in the top list. Wow. I can't accept the honor, however; as much as I LOVE math geekiness (how did you know that, anyway?) I just don't think I have the time to administer it. I am currently on the Board of 3 different nonprofits (one of them VERY dysfunctional) in the midst of a community theatre show, and hope to be changing jobs in a few weeks. I DO know basic HTML and am kind of an Excel whiz, but I pale compared to some of these other Edgic folks. Thank you, THANK you for the honor. Wow. I consider myself just a "fringe" Edgic person in these parts, nowhere near colleenlover or TheLurkerSpeaks of OnlyThe Hunter--let alone Warrior or flf--in Edgic talent. Most weeks I can barely do my watchdog report, so I cannot accept the responsibility of keeping this VERY astutek smart, COOL group of folks going on Edgic every week. But damn, you don't know how honored (and gobsmacked) I was to be named! It literally brought a tear to me eye (even if I AM drunk). Thanks, pastor dice. But someone else with reliability will need to take it over. (Anyway I am horrible at Edgic).
Francois40		#3103	[-]
Posts: 2097 (04/04/08 11:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Damn, double post. Should I tap dance here, or something? Last Edited By: Francois40 04/04/08 11:57 PM. Edited 1 times.
OnlyTheHunter		#3104	[-]
Posts: 1428 (04/04/08 11:46 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hey, watch "The Soup" - Joel shows the machete scene with Ami and Erik and then parodies it. No doubt how that was intended to come off. Michael
craig		#3105	[-]
Posts: 12703 (04/05/08 12:55 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"I'd say the negative force is Parvati -and that's really it, the rest seem to be relying on reported situations. Before I hear any crying about Parvati just doing what she has to do blah, blah, blah. It's true. But she is being used as the devious Richard Hatch force- she either wins big, or gets the comeuppance at the end. " CL, I agree except it implies a anarchronistic Borneo moral judgment that it is bad to be a strategic mastermind. Both Survivor juries and fans have come a long way in their expectations since then. We've seen Amanda get killed by the S15 jury when she tried to be the nicey nice girl who disowns responssibility for strategizing. Judging by Sucks, that episodes won Parvati new fans and respect. Parv's confessioans are a lot kinder and gentler and less "ha ha I'm outsmarting and using them" then the classic male mastermind. I don't see her being set up like Ami as the bitch who gets taken down. Parv was CP4 or CPM4 for me. Certainly less N than Cirie last episode, or many male winners in episiodes were they gave strategic confessionals. Chris was like that alot, and got rated Neu not N over and over. There was lots of P in Parv's edit about enjoying pizza, endearing rough conditions in an inferior camp, respecting and liking Ozzy\James, making new allies.
chaperone		#3106	[-]
Posts: 2453 (04/05/08 12:57 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Francois40 wrote: My personal suggestion/nomination is for Francois to consider taking over. A gifted math and stats guy, you have those tools to do it. I'm not sure how technical you are, though, so I'd of course leave it up to you to decide, and I hold you in high regards. God Awmighty, of all the names I expected to see there, mine was NOT in the top list. Wow. I can't accept the honor, however; as much as I LOVE math geekiness (how did you know that, anyway?) I just don't think I have the time to administer it. I am currently on the Board of 3 different nonprofits (one of them VERY dysfunctional) in the midst of a community theatre show, and hope to be changing jobs in a few weeks. I DO know basic HTML and am kind of an Excel whiz, but I pale compared to some of these other Edgic folks. Thank you, THANK you for the honor. Wow. I consider myself just a "fringe" Edgic person in these parts, nowhere near colleenlover or TheLurkerSpeaks of OnlyThe Hunter--let alone Warrior or flf--in Edgic talent. Most weeks I can barely do my watchdog report, so I cannot accept the responsibility of keeping this VERY astutek smart, COOL group of folks going on Edgic every week. But damn, you don't know how honored (and gobsmacked) I was to be named! It literally brought a tear to me eye (even if I AM drunk). Thanks, pastor dice. But someone else with reliability will need to take it over. (Anyway I am horrible at Edgic). Ah well...it was worth the nomination just to see you tapdance... seriously though, I hear ya. You sound a lot like me...lol...theatre...geekiness...non profits...edgic. How'd I know you were a math geek? You've referenced it a couple of times...but also more than once you've caught it when I say there are 23 voters and the percentage decimals don't match up with 100/23. Also, as to how "good" people are at edgic (as Francois was saying...) I honestly stink at edgic. I have some of the worst ratings out there when I do my voter analysis each week...and I'm usually wrong in my winner picks except when I just pick whatever Dice says. 4 words: Gary Ho Ge Boom. Yes, yes, my 2nd most famous contribution to edgic was starting the Gary Hogeboom bandwagon. Well...back to the drawing board...anyone out there willing to take on the voting site? Nervous about it but considering the possibility? Don't be shy, I'll teach you. Last Edited By: chaperone 04/05/08 1:07 AM. Edited 1 times.
craig		#3107	[-]
Posts: 12704 (04/05/08 1:08 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"think Ami should get an N for this ep. Maybe things were sympathetic for a bit, but that comment to Erik THANKING him was NN for me." That comment was intriguing and hard to interpret. I don't think she was trying to twist a knife or be passive aggressive mean. Ami is a very positive person (see especially her Day After interviews both seasons). She overcome resentment and bittnerness to vote for Twila. I see her remark to Erik as a "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" thing. She's not going to be angry or place blame, she's going to find some good in what he did. Ami may be a flawed player, but she's cool.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#3108	[-]
Posts: 1184 (04/05/08 1:50 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OTH, If you are going to weigh in on an argument, at least go back to read the whole thing. I can agree with everything you said about reality not mattering for Edgic purposes. (In fact, I think I even stated that a page or so back.) The argument was simply over whether Ami or Erik had betrayed the other. I disagree that betrayal loses its meaning just because you (the generic you) approve of it. I disagree that Erik was justified in betraying Ami on the basis of anything she had done to him, but I do agree that he could justify it on the basis of being his best hope to survive. As for Ami being negative tone, I think that's ridiculous. Mixed I could go along with (because I did detect some passive aggressiveness in the machete scene), but I really don't think that was the editing intent. I think people get too wrapped up in their favorites to remain objective. (That may even apply to myself at times, but not with Ami since I'm hardly a fan of hers.) Craig, just because you think the value system is anachronistic doesn't mean it really is. The tone scale is based upon the view that the general audience takes to the player, not what the Survivor fraternity finds acceptable, nor even what hardcore fans do. Just because you like Parvati and can justify her every move doesn't mean that she isn't being portrayed as a backstabbing, self-serving, devious maneater. She's still got the best edit and will probably win. Do you really need her to have a positive edit by Edgic standards too?
craig		#3109	[-]
Posts: 12707 (04/05/08 3:05 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"Just because you like Parvati and can justify her every move doesn't mean that she isn't being portrayed as a backstabbing, self-serving, devious maneater. She's still got the best edit and will probably win. Do you really need her to have a positive edit by Edgic standards too?" It's BS if Parv if rated N by edgic just because 22\24 of the edgic raters (something like that) have a preconceived dislike of her, and she is the victim of double standards. Sure I'm biased, but the minority has to voice their bias because otherwise the bias of the majority remain invisible. People here will diss Parvati is she is just smiley and flirty, and then when she is shown as strategic people take a couple comments and insist that is enough for an N. People will go on about her calling Jason a loser, but then why isn't Ozzy N for calling Ami a "lying little snot" when editing intent was more P than N with Ami? Maybe tone ratings are unhelpful is an ASS seasons - people have too many preconceived like and dislikes. Editors Intent I don't think the editors intent was for us to dislike Parvati. No heavy handed manipulation either way. Lots of P elements as well as N, and most importantly her plans to target Ozzy\James were explained logically without any mean words. Clearly that was Neu. Becky and Sundra were CRUCIFIED by editors and the jury for their loyalty to the guys. You can't assume Parv is N just because she doesn't want to be stuck doing a fire-makibng tie-breaker at F4 for the right to lose to Ozzy. Last Edited By: craig 04/05/08 3:12 AM. Edited 1 times.
TheIsraeliDevil	Ep. 8 Ratings / merge pick	#3110	[-]
Posts: 2119 (04/05/08 4:55 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Airai Alexis INV - So disappointing. Eliminated. Eliza MOR2 - MOR because she got the narrator edit, not because she had much content. Winners can have low-key episodes, but when they're low-key, they'll usually make one or two key comments in an episode, then disappear (see: Parvati in the last three episodes). Here, Eliza is used for filler, and I don't like it. Dropped from #1 to my #3 pick going into the merge. James UTR2 - Nothing there. Eliminated. Jason OTT3 - It's toneless, but it's totally OTT. He's the loser, like Parvati described him. He's trying everything, he works so hard, but then in the end he just looks ridicolous. Though I love his editing - eliminated. Natalie UTR1 - Such depth... Eliminated. Parvati CPN4 - It was N. It was N because she seemed snobby and too happy about herself. But that doesn't change the fact that it was a very CP episode - she came out of her shell to tell us her plan right before the merge hits. She has to be the obvious frontrunner after this episode. Puke Malakal Amanda MOR3 - There was so much airtime for Malakal this episode, she had to get some. Eliminated. Ami CPP5 - Only because of the "thank you" scene to Erik I avoided a PP. The t.ears were supposed to make you sympathize with her position. She was a traitor to the favs, yeah, but that's not how it was shown. Cirie CP3 - It doesn't get a lot more CP than that. But she's coming on too strong for now - we're supposed to KNOW she's doing well and thinking well, and I think it's too much. She never gets a quieter episode, and she's never put in risk lately. For lack of a better alternative and because she does get major substance, for now she's my #2 pick. Erik OTTP4 - The "lost puppy dog" only wants to stay with his idols for a few more days. OTTP. Eliminated. Ozzy OTTN4 - I think he's still the N force at Malakal. He seems cocky, and makes hurtful remarks at poor Ami time and again. Don't confuse the game (he's right and made a clever move) with the editing (he's a heartless jerk). Eliminated. Winners: 1. Parvati 2. Cirie 3. Eliza Everybody else eliminated.
Actually Actually Actually		#3111	[-]
Posts: 71 (04/05/08 5:16 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Amanda has more of a winner edit than Alexis does.
Actually Actually Actually		#3112	[-]
Posts: 72 (04/05/08 5:17 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Not being sarcastic, I'm serious. If people are still considering Alexis, they should consider her as well. She was just ignored by everyone after ep. 1 but she has had quite a substantial edit.
AllMenAreIslands		#3113	[-]
Posts: 23399 (04/05/08 8:21 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	TheLurkerSpeaks wrote: The second plan hinged on being able to convince Amanda and Cirie to vote for Erik in order to split the vote. We saw that Ami did in fact try to convince them of this and presumably failed. Not presumably - obviously, since Erik was and is still there. But this second plan is precisely why it's not a betrayal by Erik of Ami. She already tried to get him out. Overall I see her edit this ep as N, but I could agree with Mixed.
scepticA		#3114	[-]
Posts: 1327 (04/05/08 8:40 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	*craig wrote:* Parv's confessioans are a lot kinder and gentler and less "ha ha I'm outsmarting and using them" then the classic male mastermind. I don't see her being set up like Ami as the bitch who gets taken down. Go back and watch her diss of Jason. She's laughing about how much an idiot it was. It was neither kind nor gentle. Her "dead" statement also seemed to lack something in the kind/gentle department. Contra to what you said, this was precisely a "ha ha I'm outsmarting them (Jason) and using them (everyone else)" episode for her. Craig, you criticize others for disliking Parv: "It's BS if Parv if rated N by edgic just because 22\24 of the edgic raters (something like that) have a preconceived dislike of her, and she is the victim of double standards. Sure I'm biased, but the minority has to voice their bias because otherwise the bias of the majority remain invisible." But that's crap. All these edgic'rs are still giving her the nod for winner's edit. That's what counts, and indicates a clarity of thought that transcends the Parvati lovefest that oozes from your posts (in two seasons now). It's BS to rate her P when she's doing exactly what the so-called "male mastermind" does. My gosh - this was a great episode for her winning chances with the N. A bit of snark, a bit of Todd-esque bitchiness, and some scheming. Wonderfully N. And please note - Parv is beginning to do a little of what Ami did - she now is in THREE "alliances": the two couples, the Amanda/Cirie/Parv alliance, and now the new one with the fans. But she has to to have to act on any of them. Because of this her edit could quite easily be the "bitch who gets taken down." Heck, by your own calculations 22 of 24 edgic'rs would love it! edited cuz I said James instead of Jason in the first sentence Last Edited By: scepticA 04/05/08 11:28 PM. Edited 1 times.
astroline		#3115	[-]
Posts: 1035 (04/05/08 9:17 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Craig, I'm as big (if not bigger, she's in my top 5 of all-time) of a Parvati fan as you are, and I'm giving her N. The N isn't what matters. Look at Todd last season. Parvati has the best edit so far, the N doesn't hinder that at all. It's the CP that she needed, and she got it. And at least she has some tone, if it was a toneless CP then that would be 8 episodes without tone, and that's not good for her winning chances. So this N for her is actually a good thing. If anything, you're the one being biased and giving double standards in favor of her. Still don't understand the N's for Ami. Sure, some of what she did was N, but the editing intent was very clearly P.
OnlyTheHunter		#3116	[-]
Posts: 1429 (04/05/08 10:06 AM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	TLS said "The argument was simply over whether Ami or Erik had betrayed the other." And it is not important. Betrayal had nothing to do witht he theme of this episode. The episode was Ozzy/Amanda/Cirie choosing which one to cut adrift. I was harping on the whole betrayal thing, because that isn't the least bit relevant. Simply put, it was one of those two to choose from. One told the truth and accepted the consequences, one couldn't escape the truth, tried to rearrange the truth, and couldn't accept the consequences. There's a reason now that is evident about why the prior episodes hammered that Ami indeed would side with the fans, and why the viewer was convinced of it. Because when she uses it as a defense, we know she, unlike Erik, is lying. And when she gets dumped, truth will out. Erik is a good guy, we've been told, and here he used his honesty as his last bullet. The shot was successfully fired. That isn't betrayal, that's playing Survivor. Sceptic just said what I wanted to to craig, this was a killer great Parvati episode, because it merits a slight N tone. She is dissing her loyal mates. It's okay. We have to think James, Amanda and Ozzy are headed for a fall. She goes against them (in a confessional huuummmph Todd hhuuuummph) now and will be broken free later when it counts. That's awesome when viewing without being a fan. Will Alexis be my Terry from EI? Maybe. But unlike Aras, I always saw Parvati, and certainly would support her now. Michael
AllMenAreIslands		#3117	[-]
Posts: 23400 (04/05/08 10:15 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Astroline, I disagree. The editing INTENT was probably mixed. Compare Ami with others who were CLEARLY P, such as Jonathan. His edit up to the episode of his departure had been N - showing Jeff making snarky remarks for example, and Jonathan whining about other people (right or wrong, it still wasn't good.) This episode with Ami, the editors showed us right off the bat her lying straight to Ozzy's face about her game. She completely turned it around to make it seem that it was all her doing that saved him, when what we saw last time was her making efforts to target him - sending people on missions to garner votes against him. She is shown doing too much and setting off Ozzy's alarm bells about her. Then she's shown in a scene whining to Amanda about why she wasn't included, with Amanda pointing out that Ami was with other people so why would Amanda approach her to be with them? Ami pwned again. Maybe Ami fans felt sorry for her, but it was a plight of her own making. The editing intent was not clearly P; if there was anything PP about it, it was a comeuPPance.
briand73		#3118	[-]
Posts: 29 (04/05/08 10:31 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I agree with AMAI. There were plenty of sympathy moments for Ami never being part of the group and always being on the outside, but the past episode recap highlighted her trying to get Ozzy out to make sure we knew that she would by lying later and that the early power plays would cause her downfall. Everything she cried about not doing was stuff that she really did. She did have plenty of P, but she had enough N to make her Mixed. The inclusion of her thanking Erik for getting her into the alliance was the key moment to show the editing intent. The only purpose for this scene was to counter other P moments.
unduli clone		#3119	[-]
Posts: 2601 (04/05/08 10:41 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Final ratings... AIRAI Alexis - INV1 Eliminated. Eliza - UTR2 Still in the running. James - UTR2 Eliminated. Jason - MORP2 Eliminated. Natalie - UTR1 Eliminated. Parvati - CPN3 Winner. MALAKAL Amanda - MOR3 Eliminated. Ami - CPP5 Eliminated. Cirie- CP3 Eliminated. Erik - CPM5 Eliminated. Ozzy - CP5 Eliminated. THE WINNER: 01) Parvati In the off-chance Parvati goes, Eliza wins. And there's nothing wrong with a Parvati win - she's a more deserving All-Star than Amber, and has played this game as the mastermind of her alliance and hasn't ridden a coattail yet.
unduli clone		#3120	[-]
Posts: 2602 (04/05/08 10:42 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	.... And the site isn't working for me. Hopefully it will in time for me to vote.

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S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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