S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

0 Kudo

Started By	Comment
dennydoylelives		#3081	[-]
Posts: 2114 (04/04/08 2:59 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	TheLurkerSpeaks wrote: exposing Ami's double dealings. You're almost getting this, even if you don't realize it. Ami was double dealing, therefore actions against her are not betrayal. It's not a difficult concept. Besides, I don't know why you are continuing to argue this when I've framed this on definitional terms (where I'm clearly correct). So first you insinuate that I changed my argument through an edit when I just added an example that I thought of after hitting post, and now I'm clearly wrong because I disagree with you on a point that is obviously debatable? Wow. I don't know what to say to that.
Warrior		#3082	[-]
Posts: 2533 (04/04/08 3:04 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: Warrior, why dpes Eric miss Vis 5 by 3 points but you give him 4-5, but Parv comes within 3 of getting a Vis 4 and you only rate her 3 and not 3-4? Parv is 4th most Vis player, first on her tribe, I'd rate her a 4. craig, I rated her like I do everyone else. The numbers are what they are. Based on how we have voted in the past the visibility factor says that Parvati is a 3. However if you feel that she got added air time with little speaking time somewhere then rate her a 4. I watched it again and I just did not see anything that warrants bumping her up to a 4. In fact she sat out the challenge so she received below average visibility for the challenge. I think that she is a solid 3.
Seyz		#3083	[-]
Posts: 155 (04/04/08 3:20 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think Erik did betray Ami. Don't forget in previous episodes Ami said multiple times to the fans, that she was sticking her head out for them and for them to look out for her. That was thrown into editing for a reason. Erik made a good move, but at the same time he did backstab Ami for sure.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#3084	[-]
Posts: 1181 (04/04/08 3:27 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	ddl, Ami was double dealing against the other favorites, not against Erik. Even if she was, that still doesn't make Erik's betrayal not a betrayal. It is you who seem to be hung up on the concept. The definition of betrayal is not debatable. It is what it is. betray = to deliver to an enemy by treachery or to disclose in violation of confidence treachery = violation of allegiance or of faith and confidence Erik delivered Ami to her enemies (Ozzy, Amanda, and Cirie) by violation of faith and confidence (her willingness to vote alongside him against Ozzy). Their negotiations to plot against Ozzy were certainly done in confidence with faith that they would not be revealed. That the plans came to nothing, particularly by mutual agreement, does not invalidate that faith and confidence, which Erik betrayed by disclosing them.
AllMenAreIslands		#3085	[-]
Posts: 23393 (04/04/08 3:39 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Ami also had the scene of her crab hunting at the beginning and getting a ton of crabs for the tribe. She had no real negativity this episode and was easily P. Not easily. Only by ignoring the snide tone of that comment to Erik. It was that most of all that really left a VERY bad taste for me. Her thanking Erik for basically making it possible for her to remain in the game at his expense. If they wanted a true P tone, they would not have shown that. I think M for mixed is the best rating for this kind of Up & Down presentation. Some people feel it's fully sympathetic, others see some sympathy and some nastiness. So, the edit on its face is designed to elicit comment and provoke mixed reactions. Edited to add - the scene with Ozzy & Ami in which we saw Ami basically complete twist the story around about how it was AMI who saved Ozzy's ass when Tracy wanted to boot him - for me that set things up for the roller coaster ride. That was not a P moment at all. I disagree with those of you who feel that Erik wasn't betrayed by Ami. How many times did we see Ami make a plan with the Fans to boot this one or that one, and then at the end of the day, Ami doesn't follow through? It was more than once. I think Erik must have felt within his rights to reveal Ami's doings to Ozzy. He'd already seen Ami promise one action and fail to deliver. Last Edited By: AllMenAreIslands 04/04/08 3:45 PM. Edited 1 times.
chaperone	My Retirement Announcement	#3086	[-]
Posts: 2451 (04/04/08 3:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hey Everyone, Edgic's going great this year. It's not an easy edit, and there's lots of good healthy debate. I've learned a lot from participating in edgic, and look forward to reading when I find some time...but the truth is, I just can't keep up anymore. And with a child on the way, things are only going to get busier. (But who knows, maybe I'll find myself awake at 2AM and can read up then? ha...can't count on it) So...it's with sadness that I announce my retirement from running the voting site/stats for edgic. This means we'll need to find someone to replace me, as soon as possible. I will finish the season out so don't worry...it won't all cease immediately. But by the start of next season, we'll need someone in place ready to go. I will also give my email to that person so they can send me questions. I also have all the historical data going back to Guatemala (when I started) and I believe Dice gave me Palau. I'll give all that to whoever takes over...and they can become the new resident edgic statistician. So the first and last item of business for me is to find and train a replacement. But I have to be firm here...this is an out and out retirement. I've asked in the past if there are any willing to be trained so I had a backup...and not had any takers thus far. If nobody can step up, I'm sorry to say, you might have to go back to hand tallies from the thread. I just can't do it anymore...I hope you understand. SO...what does a person need to know in order to do this? 1. Basic HTML web skills, and the ability to host the voting site. (most ISP's have free hosting with their package...but you just need to know a little about how to do HTML) 2. Basic Excel skills. IF you're good at one but scared of the other, and want to give it a try, I'll train you. In fact, it's probably best to train two people...so there's always a backup. I'll teach you the advanced concepts that make it all come together, and you can literally port my system into yours...or you can re-frame it as you wish (I re-did it my way after Dice gave his stuff to me...sometimes we just need to do it in the simplest way for us). But the advanced concepts involved Excel functions, Excel macros, ASP, XML, and basic stats stuff. I'm actually not much of a stats guy, though I'm hoping to take some advanced math classes once I finish my masters in ministry. I'm a bi-functioning pastor-geek wanna be. My personal suggestion/nomination is for Francois to consider taking over. A gifted math and stats guy, you have those tools to do it. I'm not sure how technical you are, though, so I'd of course leave it up to you to decide, and I hold you in high regards. If anyone is interested, please PM me as soon as possible and we can get started right away with the process. I'm not able to read the thread too much anymore, so I won't catch it if you respond inline in the thread. My utmost respect, Chap
AllMenAreIslands		#3087	[-]
Posts: 23394 (04/04/08 3:48 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hey Chap - sorry to hear about your retirement, but best of luck with the family fun.
Kitty Pryde1		#3088	[-]
Posts: 3486 (04/04/08 4:13 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ratings After a Second Watch: Airai: Alexis - INV1 (Barely shown at all, even when she was on Exile Island) Eliza - MOR2 (Confessional about pizza and challenge performance, which was lame, but she also had the "Eliza gets there first" comment by Jeff) James - MOR3 (He's kinda like a narrator for the tribe) Jason - MORP3 (He caught food and was the hero of the challenge) Natalie - UTR1 (Scene with Parvati, but other than that she was barely there) Parvati - CPN3 (We got a LOT of her line of thinking, particularly with her "We play this game in segments" speech to Natalie, but was also unnecessarily negative towards Jason.) Malakal: Amanda - MOR3 (She's still just there, and not much else) Ami - OTTP5 (She caught the crabs, she had the scene reassuring Ozzy, she had all the compliments of Erik despite being her main opposition, she had the thank you scene, which I think was trying to portray her as a nice person because she was thanking Erik for helping her, not being rude about how her happiness was at his expense. Plus she had all the crying and stuff that was supposed to make us feel bad for her.) Cirie - CP3 (Definite insight into her thinking) Erik - CPP5 (Insight into his thinking, he was portrayed as a good guy, and he was an underdog) Ozzy - CP4 (Insight into his thinking and his leadership) Winners: Cirie - Great numbers and she's been on the right tribe both times Ozzy - He's got the comment from Tracy about him winning it all, plus he's been on the right tribe twice Parvati - She's got good numbers and endgame story, but she's just got too many things that make her look bad without having strategic significance. Eliza - She's slowly fading away, but she's got somewhat similar numbers to Parvati. Eliminated: Erik - He's good, but he was just too ignored and without a story for too long. Jason - He had an INV episode on Exile Island and he's been shown to be a buffoon too often. Alexis - INV episode on Exile Island and next to no story. James - Possible INV episode and no real endgame story, plus he even said he doesn't care if he wins, so long as he makes the merge. Amanda - She's probably in the endgame as the traditional under-the-radar player that makes it far. Natalie - She might as well have not even been cast.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#3089	[-]
Posts: 1182 (04/04/08 4:19 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AMAI, That position isn't supported by reality. The first plan was contingent upon having a majority of four votes, including Chet's. Once they couldn't count on Chet's vote, they could only tie, and the plan fell through. If this was just Ami not sticking to her part of the bargain, we would have seen Tracey and Erik vote for Ozzy. They didn't. Erik joined Ami in voting for Chet, and Tracey (along with Chet) voted for Erik with his permission. This was clearly done with an eye to seeing what options they might have down the road (though they were probably hoping just to avoid coming back to TC until merge). Certainly, there was no reason for Ami, Tracey and Erik to plot again if that first letdown was considered by the fans in any part Ami's fault. Obviously, they didn't. The second plan hinged on being able to convince Amanda and Cirie to vote for Erik in order to split the vote. We saw that Ami did in fact try to convince them of this and presumably failed. There potentially may have been further discussion that we did not see on whether forcing the tie made sense, but we don't know for sure. As far as that goes, Erik may have been just as unwilling (or even moreso) than Ami to force a tie for Tracey's benefit. The most relevant evidence comes from Erik's own confessionals. He portrays his decision to out Ami not as justifiable on the basis of Ami backing out of an agreement, but as a last resort to save himself. He knows it is wrong, but he sees it as the only way to survive. Again, that position is defendable, but to claim that it doesn't constitute a betrayal of Ami is ridiculous.
Relynn		#3090	[-]
Posts: 168 (04/04/08 4:35 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	TheLurkerSpeaks wrote: AMAI, That position isn't supported by reality. The first plan was contingent upon having a majority of four votes, including Chet's. Once they couldn't count on Chet's vote, they could only tie, and the plan fell through. If this was just Ami not sticking to her part of the bargain, we would have seen Tracey and Erik vote for Ozzy. They didn't. Erik joined Ami in voting for Chet, and Tracey (along with Chet) voted for Erik with his permission. This was clearly done with an eye to seeing what options they might have down the road (though they were probably hoping just to avoid coming back to TC until merge). Certainly, there was no reason for Ami, Tracey and Erik to plot again if that first letdown was considered by the fans in any part Ami's fault. Obviously, they didn't. The second plan hinged on being able to convince Amanda and Cirie to vote for Erik in order to split the vote. We saw that Ami did in fact try to convince them of this and presumably failed. There potentially may have been further discussion that we did not see on whether forcing the tie made sense, but we don't know for sure. As far as that goes, Erik may have been just as unwilling (or even moreso) than Ami to force a tie for Tracey's benefit. The most relevant evidence comes from Erik's own confessionals. He portrays his decision to out Ami not as justifiable on the basis of Ami backing out of an agreement, but as a last resort to save himself. He knows it is wrong, but he sees it as the only way to survive. Again, that position is defendable, but to claim that it doesn't constitute a betrayal of Ami is ridiculous. Well considering how Ami was planning to and wanted to vote for Eric, I don't see how Eric betrayed her... Ami may have said she was planning on helping Eric, but she never actually did, heck Ami tried to vote out Eric last week.. So the idea that Eric somehow owes Ami anything, when he knows Ami is writing his name down that night, is ridiculous...When it's you versus that other player, it's okay to try to get them out.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#3091	[-]
Posts: 1183 (04/04/08 5:03 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Erik didn't owe Ami anything, and he could have targeted her without betrayal. It was specifically his disclosure of their confidential conversations that constituted the betrayal.
Apollo Italiano		#3092	[-]
Posts: 139 (04/04/08 5:13 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Airai Alexis - UTR1 She might have nothing about her shown on Exile Island, but I think there was enough to be out of INV territory. However, I really hope that she can be eliminated after this episode. All of her promising earlier snippets have amounted to nothing. Her fond talk of Ozzy? She was on Exile Island with him and had absolutely no insight on it. She's as done as can be, James has had more of a story. Eliza - UTR2 The last Vanuatuan standing earned a fluff confessional and some SPV about being in trouble. Uh... that's it. Her winning chances have dropped for me, she's not been very prominent. She's still very possible though. James - UTR2 I don't remember much about James this episode, except he was good at opening beer bottles with his teeth. I wish I could do that. Jason - MOR2 When Jason caught the rat, I was thinking OTT, but I think him winning the challenge for the team and saving his own skin really helped him get into MOR territory. He was apart of multiple story lines, not just one. Natalie - UTR1 I considered MOR1 since she was the girl Parvati talked to, but man, I was expecting something big for her from the previews, she was making an alliance! I guess UTR will suffice, since she didn't really say anything. Parvati - CPN3 First off, I think the CP is a given. Parvati talked about people judging her, her making an alliance, the reason for it, and eventually taking out James and Ozzy. The negative is very slight, but I am going to go with it. She planned to backstab her allies, Ozzy and James, and though she had a good reason for it, that doesn't mean it wasn't negative. Plus, her saying Jason was a loser isn't nice. Winning chances, I think Parvati is actually pretty up there, but her string of insignificant UTRs, especially the lip episode, really bring her down. Malakal Amanda - MOR3 Amanda narrated, was pleaded to by Ami and Erik, and talked with Ozzy. That's grounds for a MOR. The most complex she got was talking about going with the devil she does know and the devil she doesn't. Very cool quote, by the way. Ami - CPM5 All of the talk of Ami either being positive or negative gives her the wonderful option of mixed. Yeah, Ami was said she was a great person and she cried and she wanted to be a part of the group, but Ami was also called out as a deciever and almost chopped off Erik's broken chest. I think the complexity was there, though I can't think of an example. She tried her damnest to stay. That speech she gave at Tribal Council? Awesome! That is why Ami earned her spot as an All Star. Cirie - CP3 Cirie didn't have much. No tone, just some thought about which option to go with. I could see a MOR based on narration, but I think the narration was insightful enough for a CP. Not much else there, other than I think Cirie has the strongest case as a winner. She's been prominent and has a storyline starting of getting back at Ozzy (hopefully this doesn't screech to a dead end like Alexis's did), and has been shown as a player; I am interested, however, to see if the "over strategizing" will come to bite her in the ass. It happened to Ami! Erik - OTTP5 Erik was on the chopping block. Erik wanted to save himself. Erik tried his hardest and succeeded. Selling out Ami? It was justified by Cirie, Amanda, and even Ami herself. In fact, I think even in the OTT description, it says something like "focused only on saving one's own skin." Yeah, that's Erik to a tee. Underdog fighting for his life = OTTP. Ozzy - CP5 Ozzy was shown a lot. He had his Exile Island scene, he had his reflections of being a leader, he had his lack of trust with Ami, and he had his trying to save Erik. We got a lot of insight on Ozzy this episode, we learned that he doesn't think he's the leader, and he doesn't want to be. We learned he's only going after people if they go after him. I think Ozzy has a very strong winner's case, he's been shown much more modestly, and some would argue his OTTN last time wasn't really that bad. I think Ozzy has the edge over both Parvati AND Eliza, because he has been prominent since the beginning. Yes, it could seem he's being set up for a great fall, but shouldn't Todd of fallen as well? Jean-Robert set his sites on Todd, yet Todd still won. Plus, Ozzy's getting jury connections. Erik loves him, Alexis's speil about liking Ozzy might actually amount to a vote for him, he's got Parvati, James, and Amanda. He's also got the doubt of being too smug, and Cirie seems to be his obstacle. Winners' List: 1. Cirie 2. Ozzy 3. Parvati 4. Eliza
Warrior		#3093	[-]
Posts: 2534 (04/04/08 5:16 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Episode 8 AIRAI Alexis - INV Eliminated Visibility 1 Eliza - MOR2 She got a narrating confessional explaining the up coming reward/immunity challenge and then another after they won it about how good she feels. She also was the player that received the reaction shot after winning the challenge. I don't think that this was a bad episode for her at all. We should see her edit start to take off next episode at the merge. Visibility - Medium 3 James - UTR2 Warning No not open bottles with your teeth! You will pay for it later. Visibility - Solid 2 Jason - MOR2 …caught a rat but didn't eat it. Isn't that a nursery rhyme? He had pizza instead. Visibility - Medium 3 Natalie - UTR1 Eliminated Visibility - Solid 1 Parvati - CPN3 "Everyone else…they're dead to me." Making deals with the enemy in this game will get you killed…just ask Ami. They are showing us Parvati making the same mistake that Ami made…Hmmmmmm Visibility - Solid 3 MALAKAL Amanda - MOR3 Eliminated Visibility - Medium 3 Ami - CPM5 Her edit pulled at the heartstrings of the viewers but not in positive or negative way. Visibility - Medium 5 Cirie - MOR3 Her chances of being the winner are still good. But her edit in episode 1 was … not good. Visibility - Weak 3 Erik - CP5 Fought for his life and won the fight but he is going to loose the battle. He is still eliminated. Visibility - Weak 5 or strong 4. Ozzy - CP5 His edit is looking a lot like Rupert's edit from P.I. …Oh shit, Amanda wins! Visibility - Weak 5 or strong 4
Kitty Pryde1		#3094	[-]
Posts: 3487 (04/04/08 5:30 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite
TheIsraeliDevil	Ep. 8	#3095	[-]
Posts: 2118 (04/04/08 5:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'll do ratings tommorow, I'm too disgusted by the fact that Parvati obviously wins.
cantthinkofaname		#3096	[-]
Posts: 1097 (04/04/08 7:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Parvati - MORN3. Sorry to those of you that have a thing for her, but she was being bitchy towards the intellectually challenged boy on the tribe for no good reason. Plus, whoever doesn't fit into her plans is dead to her, nothing but N. That can't be parsed into neutral or P if you're showing the slightest amount of objectivity. THANK YOU!
chaperone		#3097	[-]
Posts: 2452 (04/04/08 7:07 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I thought Ami was diabolically manipulative this episode. It was wild to watch her...having so clearly done exactly what she was bawling about having not done. Then that creepy sling blade scene with Erik was just awful. It made my stomach churn. Last Edited By: chaperone 04/04/08 7:25 PM. Edited 1 times.
Die Apokalyptischen Reiter		#3098	[-]
Posts: 280 (04/04/08 7:39 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite
ProbstFan123		#3099	[-]
Posts: 9015 (04/04/08 8:00 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If Jonathan had done that, people would be calling for a NNNNN rating. But since it's Queen Ami, she gets a free pass.
scepticA		#3100	[-]
Posts: 1326 (04/04/08 9:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oh gosh, no. She was definitely N. Wonderfully, diabolically, Lorena. Bobbit-ish N with a BIG blade. It was a pleasure to watch someone do the things she did. If there was a problem it was that she overplayed her hand throughout. Her "don't worries" to Oz at the beginning were way overdone, and it was a death shroud for her when Oz said exactly what a lot of us were thinking - quiet down, girl. Don't just reassure him - again and again and again. But even better than her @#+ at TC (which IMO were because she already knew she was going) was the knife scene. I was actually kind of surprised that they put it in - it was delicious (and I bet to guys a bit terrifying!) TV. And giving her the hugfest after the vote (along with her comment to Erik, something along the lines of "You're gonna have a blast,:") was also terrific. All together it was a finely honed (!) N. Just had to include that last line. The episode screamed for it.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

Quick Reply