S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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getting real		#2761	[-]
Posts: 1120 (03/22/08 1:26 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cirie's function is to be the player who brings down the showmancers. Her observation that she went along for their little adventure this time but would never again do so echoes the warnings of Jonathan (the doom prophet) that, by trusting Cirie, Parvati has signed her own death warrant . Cirie herself cannot win because a) her editing treatment in the first episode b) her negative tone this time around isn't the kind that a winner would have. It isn't the almost playful negativity of Todd; nor is it a Hatch/Heidik all business type of negativity. Cirie's (and Ozzy's) is a more malicious negtivity. Worse, part of it is borne out from her attitude towards weak players - a definite no-no this season.
craig		#2762	[-]
Posts: 12626 (03/22/08 2:11 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cirie will bring down the MALE showmancers, or help Parvati and Amanda to do so. Both Cirie and Ozzy's negativity would fit a scenario where Parvati wins after overthrowing the former and winning a jury vote against the later. Ciriw thinks if she boots the males she can beat Parmanda at the end. But Parv ain't no Danielle.
AllMenAreIslands		#2763	[-]
Posts: 23307 (03/22/08 6:16 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The complexity at Malakal may well come into play in the jury phase. Even if all 3 finalists are from New Airai, I'm betting at least 2 will be Favorites, ergo, original Malakal AND they'll be looking to their old pals from their original tribe to cast votes for them. As for Tone, it could be personal bias coming into it. I can see the N tone for Ozzy, now that you point it out. At the time I was enjoying the view. And Mr. AMAI made a couple of interesting observations. About Ozzy, he noted that Ozzy got to work fixing food for the tribe, and those people while eating were talking about getting rid of him. About Cirie, he was wondering why the tribe wasn't planning to target her for her bad attitude. He doesn't analyze this stuff to death like we do - so he picked up on the Cirie Nness, while viewing Ozzy as someone unappreciated.
TheIsraeliDevil	Ep. 7	#2764	[-]
Posts: 2116 (03/22/08 6:31 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	That was a bad episode. Just dull, disappointing, and almost no Eliza. Ratings: Airai Alexis UTR1 Eliza UTR1 James MORM3 Jason INV Kathy CPP5 (I don't get it... are they gonna encourage quitters now?) Natalie UTR2 Parvati UTR2 Nobody was there but Kathy and James. Malakal Amanda MOR3 Ami CP3 Cirie CPM5 Erik OTT4 (He's "like a wide-eyed kid in a candy store", in more ways than one. That's OTT) Ozzy OTTN5 Tracy MOR3 Everybody but Cirie, Eliza, Parv are eliminated. Who wins? I'd say Eliza wasn't hurt here, because it was such a Malakal-centered episode, with all Airai footage being about Kathy's quitting... Parv, though she did get a key confessional, was again very UTR, and that's getting too much. If she's UTR again next episode, that'd make her a very unlikely winner. Cirie still seems more like the agressive end-gamer than the winner. 1. Eliza 2. Parv 3. Cirie
getting real		#2765	[-]
Posts: 1121 (03/22/08 6:56 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	So he picked up on the Cirie Nness, while viewing Ozzy as someone unappreciated. Mr. AMAI's all over the world would feel that way, AMAI. It's the solidarity that unites unappreciated male providers the world over.
Jedijake		#2766	[-]
Posts: 4977 (03/22/08 9:33 AM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cirie herself cannot win because a) her editing treatment in the first episode b) her negative tone this time around isn't the kind that a winner would have. It isn't the almost playful negativity of Todd; nor is it a Hatch/Heidik all business type of negativity. Cirie's (and Ozzy's) is a more malicious negtivity. Worse, part of it is borne out from her attitude towards weak players - a definite no-no this season. Not so sure about that. Her treatment in episode 1 wasn't bad in respect to what came afterwards. She didn't have to have the quote about not being sure what her plan is. That was fluff for a reasaon. They could have completely left that out. That, along with her quote about still being that fan on the couch is important. Cirie hasn't been negative to the point of being OTTN. Nobody is saying how horrible she is. She is NOT being shown the same way that Stephanie was being shown in her second season. And it is very much being shown in a business type fashion. Stephanie was all about "poor me, poor me, I am on a tribe of losers again and everyone is gay and retarded". Cirie is more about "come on, get up and get into the game". Or at least that is what it seems. She hasn't really come out and raked the fans through the coals. She's more reflecting what the viewers are feeling. ETA: In the case of S11, the main reason why Stephanie did not win is because she was a returning player. Sure, Jamie and Judd were completely backstabbed by her, but she was a returnee. Am I wrong about that? Please correct me if I am. For the viewers, we had to have more solid reasoning for her loss. Therefore, they stuck us with every "poor me poor me, everyone is gay and retarded" they could find for Stephanie. The "returning" player business would not suffice. For the case of Cirie, it's the favorites' game to lose. Therefore, they have to show whoever wins to be the best player. While Parvati and Eliza may still be in the running, they would have HAD to have much better continuing storylines. Parvati has just fallen off the face of the Earth lately. As a returning player, that is unacceptable. Can that really be redeemed? Parvati's edit has not been all that different from Amanda's last season in terms of facetime. Last Edited By: Jedijake 03/22/08 9:50 AM. Edited 1 times.
Werwanderflugen		#2767	[-]
Posts: 92 (03/22/08 9:51 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Just thought I'd throw this out there-- I do think that the best tone rating for Cirie after this episode is M. I (and some friends I've talked to) personally thought her boat/Ozzy-Erik/strategy confessionals were positive, but clearly many think it was negative. I think the M is the best way to go here. As for winning chances, I'm with (pretty much) everyone else that it's down to Parvati, Cirie, and Eliza. After this episode, I have them in that order. Edgically, they all have their strong points, and they all have their drawbacks. But just looking at game logistics, which is how I'm basing my opinion this week, Parvati seems to be aligning herself in the best position to win the game. As for the Alexis hope, I just don't see a fan winning this game. We've been told repeatedly that the fans are constantly being dominated by the faves, and if Alexis were to pull it out, I think we'd definitely have heard from her more often throughout the pre-merge in confessionals and scenes that backed up her infamous ep1 confessional. But she doesn't-- no story, no CP, no nothing. Just there-- like Natalie, the only person to actually have even less of a story/presence. Last Edited By: Werwanderflugen 03/22/08 9:53 AM. Edited 1 times.
Warrior		#2768	[-]
Posts: 2516 (03/22/08 10:22 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	After 7 episodes: Cirie is +80 visibility points above the episode average. Eliza is +1 visibility points above the episode average. Parvati is -45 visibility points above the episode average.
colleenlover		#2769	[-]
Posts: 7982 (03/22/08 10:35 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yes, to me the only three people that could win based on manipulation are Cirie, Eliza and Parvati. If this means that because X received too many UTR or INV episodes and that goes against edgic -then sorry, I go against edgic. All the players left have had an episode with no confessionals -except Ozzy -Cirie had episode four where she had a brief confessional before the opening credits! It's all about the foreshadowing snippets placed when we don't need them. Okay, I'm usually wrong with pinpointing the actual winner, but I'm good at the endgame stuff, and the dynamics. "Courtney is the luckiest player..." When we have editing manipulation to accomodate- Jeff saying, "Fire is your life in this game," when Cirie (a returning player!) lighting her torch in the first tribal... Jonathan telling Eliza to "look at the bigger picture." Parvati being shown catching the fish these are the things I'm looking at. And then connections for eventual payoffs -Cirie, she's like me..." "I don't want to get snaked by Eliza..." Cirie telling Jeff she won't trust people at face value... Also go back at watch episode three's Tribal in terms of the editing manipulation, especially for Eliza. How could I possibly say X will win over Y right now without it just being a guess, and then pat myself on the back for GUESSING correctly?
9RedWing19		#2770	[-]
Posts: 2119 (03/22/08 11:34 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	How could I possibly say X will win over Y right now without it just being a guess, and then pat myself on the back for GUESSING correctly? CL, that's what makes you different from many Sucks posters - they do pat themselves on the back.
9RedWing19		#2771	[-]
Posts: 2120 (03/22/08 11:40 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cirie hasn't been negative to the point of being OTTN. Nobody is saying how horrible she is. She is NOT being shown the same way that Stephanie was being shown in her second season. And it is very much being shown in a business type fashion. Stephanie was all about "poor me, poor me, I am on a tribe of losers again and everyone is gay and retarded". After 7 episodes, Steph had no "N" tone ratings in Guat; Cirie has had 2 in the first 6 episodes in S16. But I realize that some people want to ignore these inconvenient facts ... (and Steph never had an OTTN episode in Guat). Steph's Guat edit was much more complex than you stated, whether you want to recognize it or not (8 of the 14 episodes she had a CP rating, which, off the top of my head, is the highest total ever for a female contestant - by contrast, Rafe had 6, Danni had 2). Last Edited By: 9RedWing19 03/22/08 11:49 AM. Edited 2 times.
getting real		#2772	[-]
Posts: 1122 (03/22/08 12:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cirie hasn't been negative to the point of being OTTN. Nobody is saying how horrible she is. She is NOT being shown the same way that Stephanie was being shown in her second season. And it is very much being shown in a business type fashion. Or at least that is what it seems. She hasn't really come out and raked the fans through the coals. She's more reflecting what the viewers are feeling. I think her death knell was last episode when she said she couldn't be bothered helping or teaching the fans. That was meant to sound as full of entitlement as any of Steph's utterings. As for the Alexis hope, I just don't see a fan winning this game. We've been told repeatedly that the fans are constantly being dominated by the faves That's precisely the reason why it won't end up that way. Yes, to me the only three people that could win based on manipulation are Cirie, Eliza and Parvati. If this means that because X received too many UTR or INV episodes and that goes against edgic -then sorry, I go against edgic. This is a season where you have to look toward group manipulation. The dynamics are entirely different to 'normal' seasons.
AllMenAreIslands		#2773	[-]
Posts: 23312 (03/22/08 12:39 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	9RedWing19 wrote: Cirie hasn't been negative to the point of being OTTN. Nobody is saying how horrible she is. She is NOT being shown the same way that Stephanie was being shown in her second season. And it is very much being shown in a business type fashion. Stephanie was all about "poor me, poor me, I am on a tribe of losers again and everyone is gay and retarded". After 7 episodes, Steph had no "N" tone ratings in Guat; Cirie has had 2 in the first 6 episodes in S16. But I realize that some people want to ignore these inconvenient facts ... (and Steph never had an OTTN episode in Guat). Steph's Guat edit was much more complex than you stated, whether you want to recognize it or not (8 of the 14 episodes she had a CP rating, which, off the top of my head, is the highest total ever for a female contestant - by contrast, Rafe had 6, Danni had 2). Interesting, RedWing... I know I was fed up with her by about ep 2, but that view clearly wasn't shared by the majority of Edgickers. cl, you make excellent points. Could all three of them be the Final 3? I certainly hope so. What an exciting Jury that would be!!! getting real, Mr. AMAI 'd when I read your comment to him.
GrenadeJumper85		#2774	[-]
Posts: 3735 (03/22/08 12:44 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	After 7 episodes, Steph had no "N" tone ratings in Guat; Cirie has had 2 in the first 6 episodes in S16. If after 7 episodes, during Guatemala and Stephenie wasn't negative, there is something deeply flawed with Edgic. She had a way more negative tinge that entire season, compared to Cirie this season. To say Stephenie edit was more complex then Cirie's this season is ridiculous.
SurvivorFanGP		#2775	[-]
Posts: 5740 (03/22/08 12:56 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If Edgic were to be redone for Guatemala, no doubt would a lot of Stephenie's ratings, at the very LEAST, be changed to "M".
GrenadeJumper85		#2776	[-]
Posts: 3736 (03/22/08 12:59 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The episode she called BJ "Gay and retarded" should have definitely warranted an N rating.
Jedijake		#2777	[-]
Posts: 4978 (03/22/08 12:59 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	So all of Stephanie's "gay" and "retarded" comments did not add up to a single N? Wow, just wow!
getting real		#2778	[-]
Posts: 1123 (03/22/08 1:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Look, it doesn't matter what Steph's ratings were. The editing told us she wasn't going to win from around Episode 7 onwards. And that's not with the benefit of hindsight, either. AMAI, I raise my glass of scotch to Mr. AMAI's good health.
GrenadeJumper85		#2779	[-]
Posts: 3738 (03/22/08 1:17 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The editing told us she wasn't going to win from around Episode 7 onwards If that were the case, why was she always Edgics number two choice, after Gary, and taking the number one spot after Gary was eliminated?
chaperone		#2780	[-]
Posts: 2442 (03/22/08 1:39 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AllMenAreIslands wrote: 9RedWing19 wrote: Cirie hasn't been negative to the point of being OTTN. Nobody is saying how horrible she is. She is NOT being shown the same way that Stephanie was being shown in her second season. And it is very much being shown in a business type fashion. Stephanie was all about "poor me, poor me, I am on a tribe of losers again and everyone is gay and retarded". After 7 episodes, Steph had no "N" tone ratings in Guat; Cirie has had 2 in the first 6 episodes in S16. But I realize that some people want to ignore these inconvenient facts ... (and Steph never had an OTTN episode in Guat). Steph's Guat edit was much more complex than you stated, whether you want to recognize it or not (8 of the 14 episodes she had a CP rating, which, off the top of my head, is the highest total ever for a female contestant - by contrast, Rafe had 6, Danni had 2). Interesting, RedWing... I know I was fed up with her by about ep 2, but that view clearly wasn't shared by the majority of Edgickers. cl, you make excellent points. Could all three of them be the Final 3? I certainly hope so. What an exciting Jury that would be!!! getting real, Mr. AMAI 'd when I read your comment to him. RW...would you say that the problem with Steph's edit was not that she was N (as she was debatably so at best and CP regardless) but that she was set up as having negative jury relationships? To me that's the issue. Or would you say that edgically Steph "should have" won? (I understand the silliness of that question, but I hope you understand my meaning) For me in edgic that year I kept thinking (before and after my pick Gary was booted) that "wow, if she's the winner, I just don't get how the jury even likes her." And of course it was Rafe (who is to Steph as Erik is to Ozzy this season) who actually gave her one vote. I haven't been paying too close of attention to Cirie, so I don't know if this is true, but it seems like most of what we dislike about her are her confessionals that border on arrogant, not N SPV, am I right? We see her strategize, we see her comment on the tribe, we see her setting herself up for end game type possibilities...but do we ever hear potential jurors say "that b- Cirie can't get her head out of her a-?" I don't think so. I know my wife despises her this season (and loved her before). But I'm pretty sure that's related to her smug confessionals. I wonder if people out there on her tribe would identify her as N. That IS important but ONLY in terms of jury relationships. I'm tempted to think that she's being shown very intentionally as a person with complex relationships all around her and that likely has to relate to the final TC. I don't know that it means she wins or loses, but I can't imagine this story being told without Cirie in the F2/F3, win or lose. Ami being cut into that scene could have as much to do with Cirie (and how she relates to Ami) than Ami alone. I hope that's all cool of me to say, nothing I'm saying is anything I've been spoiled with (it's laughable what I know that keeps me from commenting...look forward to the end of the season so I can let loose and tell you all about it...but just trying to honor not picking winners/elim's, and know this might teeter on that line, but it's pure, I promise). Any concerns, PM me or post them in my "edgic is not spoiled" thread.

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S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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