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winterland121072 |
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good God - you are right - and I am smack dab in the middle of Stalingrad...ugh
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AllMenAreIslands |
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2042 or 1942?
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dennydoylelives |
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GrenadeJumper85 wrote: Eliza has several differences. Openinig episode Van - she's grouped with the lazy girls. Opening episode HalfASS, she's grouped with the hard and effective workers. Running theme Van. - Eliza has to be voted out because she's annoying, supported by editing with a season long soundtrack of Eliza talking whenever her camp is shown. This season, E. to be voted out because she's a challenge liability, contradicted by footage showing her doing well in challenges. Van - Eliza's observations were not always correct, often contradicted by footage, this time every observation that she is shown making is spot on and supported by editing. There is no doubt whatsoever that she is getting a different edit. She's the same person, but this time the editing is backing her up. ETA: Ratings Alexis UTR1 Eliza MORP2 James MORM2 Jason OTTN3 (They're not doing anything to hide the fact that he's a dipshit from the audience.) Jonathan OTTPP4 Kathleen MORP2 Natalie INV4 (She's ready to pounce, I can sense it.) Parvati UTR2 Amanda MOR3 Ami CPP4 Chet OTTN4 (Either the worst contestant in the history of the show or the worst hatchet job ever given to a contestant.) Cirie MOR3 (I wouldn't count her out.) Erik CPP4 Ozzy MOR4 Tracy CPP4 (The only fan I haven't officially eliminated.)
Last Edited By: dennydoylelives
03/14/08 11:59 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Cassidy666 |
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After this last episode, I can see reasons for keeping Tracy, Cirie, Eliza and Parvati in contention. But to be honest, I can only really see one person
winning and that's Cirie. Tracy has got a great underdog fighter edit and she might be second behind Cirie. Eliza I feel has been shown giving insight into
her chances in the game but nothing shown of a solid strategy ever since the start when she made her alliance and tried to go after Parvati. We don't even
know how she's been interacting with the others on her new tribe other than non-specific comments that she has got new life. The same goes for Parvati only
less so. Not much insight, a bit of the flirting but cast in not too negative a light. No real idea how things are going for her on the new tribe so far. I
know they haven't gone toTC since the merge but you would think they could have shown something a bit more complex. It's like everyone is in a holding
pattern for the time being. Static.
The reason why I feel Cirie has more weight is that the edit has been generous in showing her mindset behind the things she does, even if it does come off somewhat negative in moments, but not so much that it is distasteful. I know the main argument that she's a distraction but I feel like the static potential-waiting-to-happen-but never-really-does edit that Eliza and Parvati are getting could be the real distractions. At this point, Ozzy seems like more of a contender than them. But that's just how the character edits look like to me. Okay, I'll leave the discussion to you regular edgic folk again... |
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chaperone |
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<rant>
I stopped reading a few pages back...I'm frustrated. This thread is similar to a giant debate between two siblings over whether the Oakland A's, Kansas City Royals, or Tampa Bay Devil Rays are the best positioned baseball teams to win it all this year. They might, but it's the exception not the rule. The truth is, it's probably going to come down to the Yankees and the Red Sox. We're all playing favorites, and it's the most cancerous threat to edgic, more than spoilers ever will be. Look at the edits, don't stand by people so clearly removed from the game because you want to stick with your early pick, because they're your home town team, because you think they're hot, or whatever your reason is. Or at the very least, recongize that you're picking something outside of the norm and don't get all hot and bothered when people disagree with you. You can defend your pick without all the self-righteousness. There are people with great winner's edits, this season feels to me either like the demise of edgic or our finest hour. Please make it the latter. Be objective. Consider other people's opinions higher than your own. I think the best exercise for edgic would be for each person to write up a case for and a case against every single character. (Even write a case for Natalie.) Then consider what's been written. Or maybe write a case AGAINST the player you've been fervently supporting. </rant> |
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scepticA |
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chap, that will be tough. My three top picks include one person i don't like particularly, Parvati, one person I do like in this season (and not in her
first season), Eliza, and one person who's both my WD and making me uncomfortable with her dramatic change, Cirie.
I could say that Parv's recent UTRs immediately after the merge weren't so great, but her fans say they are terrific cooldowns filled with significance. Eliza's fans say that she's plucky, smart, and observant, but others say it's just more of the "she's in danger every week." And the Cirie detractors say, "She's too N," but others see real manipulation in her edit. I can see all these points, although I admit that I think the Parv fans go a wee bit overboard in assigning significance to each shot of hers. I truly cannot pick between them. Oh, yeah. My fave Tracy? She's gonna WIN IT ALL!!! [LOL] |
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chaperone |
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Just for the record, that wasn't a rant against everyone's picks...and everyone being influenced by favoritism. My wife tells me I generalize too
much. I do it all the time.
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OnlyTheHunter |
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chaperone, sorry that I frustrated you. I don't have Alexis eliminated so I stand by it. I am saying Parvati looks damn good as the winner now. The best
case against Alexis is some things still need to happen, with Parvati they're happening. Is that okay?
I stuck with Terry in EI and after the merge I knew that one was a mistake. Why would I change now? Michael |
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Francois40 |
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You're right--VERY interesting switch of (mis)direction! I seem to recall this happening before, but can't remember how/when.
It means nothing, but I did notice not one but TWO quick inserted shots of her at the beginning of the IC. Tiny flashes on the screen...almost as if someone realized "we've got to show her SOME!" so they slapped in a couple of <1 second face shots. Poor gal. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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I'm not basing my pick of Tracy based on the fact that I like her. My pick comes from the fact that, in my opinion, if a favorite were to win, they
wouldn't be editted the way they're being editted, with subtle negativity (like Parvati's pee water comment, her couples alliance being compared to
rats, and her lack of emotion when Jonathan was leaving). And as for the fans, a fan DEFINITELY wouldn't win with a negative edit, because the viewer
wouldn't be able to stomach that, and given that none of the favorites have really been portrayed as negative to the point where we could understand them
being blown out like Steph, I don't see a UTR fan winning either. Tracy's the only fan that hasn't been either UTR or oversimplified, and
that's the type of edit I think a fan would get if they were to win against one of ten favorites this season, especially if the vote is, as I'm
predicting, close. As for the faves, the only one I haven't ruled out (I'm not gonna vote to eliminate some people, because edgically, they're
still in, just not gut-wise) is Eliza because she's the only fave to get screentime, not be a distraction, and not be shown as completely negative (her
only slight N came from the episode where she was being mistreated, and thus it was an M, anyway).
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chaperone |
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OnlyTheHunter wrote: I may have misled you in my rant...it was emotional at the time...but I'm calm now. It's not the content of what anyone's picking, it's the
tone behind it, the lack of humility in recognizing that my pick is out of the mainstream and has serious edgic flaws to it. The Royals may very well win the
series...and when I pick them, I'll make my case, make it well, but I need to understand that I'm going to have to be a lone cowboy in that pick.
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AllMenAreIslands |
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Okay, chap. I'll take your challenge.
Alexis. pro: had something special in Ep 1, Care taken each week to remind us she's still here. con: hasn't had any real meat to her since that Ep 1 appearance. Eliza pro: major storylines mapped out. Whereas Parvati has claimed to change her game, Eliza is being SHOWN to have changed. Her edit shows her being thoughtful, observant and a challenge asset rather than a liability. con: she's well developed in order to serve as a distraction to someone else James pro: being shown to have some challenge smarts. He found the word "Triumphant" in the puzzle the other ep con: not really developed as a game long player. Starting to get negativity thrown in along with positivity, but it all feels "minor" Jason pro: he had some good comments in Ep 1 con: everything about his edit says "supporting player" "someone on the outside" "nothing goes right for him" Kathleen pro: Her edit has toned down a good deal over the last few eps con: Problem is, starting out as an OTT player, whether P or N, bodes very poorly. She's getting more of the sweetheart treatment because she said nice things about one of the show's favorites, Jonathan. Natalie pro: If we're due for a truly Invisible winner, she'd be as good as anyone. con: No story, like, at all. Parvati pro: Excellent carefully tended edit. con: Could be a distraction for someone else with an equally well-tended edit. (Cirie or Eliza) Amanda pro: see Natalie con: no real story; adjunct to Ozzy Ami pro: Beginning to be seen as a Mover & Shaker con: Unfortunately, it's happening too late. We're seeing her make moves because her story can be told in a few eps' worth of show. Cirie pro: Been a major mover/shaker. Lots of facetime in the early eps (for the most part), having a quieter period at the moment. con: She's really strong ... but ... maybe she's almost too strong a presentation. She's starting to feel OTT, even if she's never actually received a consensus OTT rating. Erik pro: He's starting to get CP treatment... con: Early eps were too nothing. Ozzy pro: He's starting to get CP ratings ... con: Early eps were Meh. I think he's peaking without having been fully developed. Won't win. Tracy pro: Before ep 6, I thought she had great chances. con: The totally unnecessary SPV about her (non) contribution to the challenge is more lethal in my view than the disputed INV. It means she's going from a fairly positive character to a seemingly gratuitous negative one. When others in the game are shown finding reasons to find fault, that's a set up for galvanizing the troops to boot her. In conclusion, there are a few people who have had facetime with substance in almost every ep, even if their tribe didn't go to TC that week. People who get nothing even if their tribe goes to TC (and Alexis falls into that category) are unlikely winners at best. Even Danni was given good facetime, which I think was mis-rated as UTR when it should have been MOR or even CP. If Edgic has a problem it is that people are misled by the guidelines into handing out UTRs without taking the time to analyze content and give CP1 or MOR1. UTR should not primarily be used as a visibility rating. It needs a better definition as a type of edit, not an amount of edit. It's not that some people would necessarily be better placed. But it is likely that someone who turns out to be a winner, such as Danni, would have had ratings that showed her early involvement in making things happen in her tribe, even if she didn't receive that much facetime in the episode. The reason I harp on this point is that Danni's win is constantly brought out as an example of someone who was hidden. She wasn't as hidden as the ratings would have us believe. We just weren't agreed as a group to identify her edit for what it was. As for this season, things are a bit wonky because of returning personalities, some of whom have actually changed, and some of whom have only talked about change. The Fans as a whole have come across as weirdos, idiots and armchair strategists around whom circles are being run. The Favorites as a whole have been complex, with carefully tended edits, end-game ties and strategic coups. BUT - let us bear in mind that we are now stood with 14 players remaining. The game could be said to be about to begin now. All that has gone before may have served simply as introductory material. Rather than beat ourselves up, why not take the fact that 14 remain, and that what happens from Ep 7 forward is the real meat of the season? edirted to add my Cirie pro/con. LOL fancy leaving hers out!
Last Edited By: AllMenAreIslands
03/14/08 1:43 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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chaperone |
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Kitty Pryde1 wrote: I disagree with a lot of things in the first half of this, but I'm challenged to understand how you get there. My main issue is this presumption that
a winner wouldn't be negative in a particular season, and that within that assumption bold assertions like "DEFINITELY" are used. Why not just
say "I believe they probably wouldn't edit a winner N this time around"? The part I italicized above in your post you backed off of the
universals and started speaking less dogmatically, and I appreciate that.
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Gotcha, chaperone. No problem. I always act like me, and that's boring and civil. I'm mad, now, that I don't get to +#$*# into Assman. But I'll live. But if you can't see the Natamanda tie coming, you're a jackass, bitch. Michael |
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chaperone |
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Hey AMAI...thanks for the shot at that...It was good to read. Not that I agree with everything, but I dig the evenness to it. And you have to call a spade a
spade with Natalie and Amanda.
OTH...what do you mean about Assman? The reference is OMH I guess. (That OMH ... Over My Head) When I have debates with my students, I often make them debate the opposite side. It's a healthy exercise. |
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AllMenAreIslands |
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Kitty, I agree with chap - the winner's behavior is what it is. The editors don't care whether the viewer can or cannot stomach it. Besides, if we are
correct and MB's minions are checking out Sucks, then they know that no matter what happens, there are lovers and haters of every single contestant. Sucks
is a bit of a microcosm of the viewership at large. So there is no point in trying to hide something that is relevant to how that person won.
But.. if something is shown which seems gratuitous, then it's very possible it's being included to foreshadow elimination. |
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RageBot |
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After one watch:
Okay, I think i'm done? |
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chaperone |
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AllMenAreIslands wrote: Or at least a microcosm of the really dysfunctional segment of the viewership at large. |
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AllMenAreIslands |
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Thanks chap. With what did you disagree?
I really think Sucks is a true microcosm. And I do mean ALL of Sucks, not just Sucks forum itself. There are many intelligent, thoughtful people who post here, not just whiners & moaners, or people who "hate everything" or who "love everything. I think the minions keep tabs on all of us. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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I'm just saying that in a season like this, if a favorite were to win the game, they would be editted positively. If the winner was Cirie, that would be
great for the editors, because Cirie is an extremely lovable player, and they would do their best to edit her as such so that the viewers would be satisfied
with the ending. The same goes for any of the favorites. They would be portrayed positively, because they're already the favorites and thus can easily be
editted positively based on previous viewer perceptions. If they wanted to add doubt, they could always do what they did with Tom or Yul and throw in a late
negative episode while keeping the overall tone positive, but I feel that a winning favorite WOULD be positive. I suppose a fan could be negative though if
they screwed over the favorites and proved to be a better player than all of them, they could get a respectable N, but I just don't see that happening,
given the way the Ns in this season are being handled for the fans.
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