S-16 Edgic (editing and logic)

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winterland121072	Jonathan Penner Watchdog Report	#221	[-]
Posts: 950 (02/09/08 4:00 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	WATCHDOG REPORT Jonathan Penner Episode 01 Observations - got first confession where he compared the favorites to the boston red sox - Upon introduction by Probst the fans cheered - His mutiny was replayed for the viewers - Barely shown during the first at camp segment for Malakal - Stated "good night favorites" - Shown forming the YEPA (yow / eliza / penner / ami) alliance - Suggested fairplay as the 5^th for their alliance; others acquiesced - Suggested parvati or ozzy for boot - His insight was shown as to why parvati should go first within the JOPA alliance - His insight was shown as to why fairplay great to have on alliance - His insight shown regarding loss and characterized the "fans" and their heart - Answered tribal council question about fairplay - Shown wishing fairplay the best of luck and… Rating - CP. The viewer learned a lot about Jonathan Penner in Episode through both interaction and insight. Interaction wise, the viewer saw him participate in developing the YEPA alliance and participate in practicing the alliance. For example, he was the first to suggest targeting Ozzy or Parvati. Insight wise, the viewer learned about his reasoning behind targeting Parvati first, and his reasoning behind having Fairplay in his alliance. His character was well developed, his editing had depth, and he was truly part of the unfolding game. As such, Jonathan Penner's rating in Survivor 16 Episode 01 is CP. Tone - (mixed) The viewer initially was reminded of his mutiny from his previous season and his arrogance regarding the other tribe. But, following the challenge loss, the viewer saw Jonathan reveal that the other tribe had more heart, thus indicating humbleness. His interaction within the Molakal tribe was neither positive nor negative. His tribal council participation was neutral. The viewer saw arrogance / humbleness / and static neutral. As there was a mixture of positive / negative and neutral, Jonathan Penner's tone in Survivor 16 Episode 01 was mixed. Visibility - Medium High Visibility - 4 Jonathan had 9 sentences, 3 confessionals (all insightful). His presence was higher than average but certainly not omnipresent as was fairplay. Chances of winning - Moderate In episode 01 he avoided the invisible and OTT pitfalls. He also avoided being UTR. His character development and provided insight indicates his chances of winning are moderate to high. His character has a very rich flavor that stinks of distraction. His chances of winning will dramatically increase if his presence is toned down a bit (for example, if his character took the edit Ami received in episode 01).
craig		#222	[-]
Posts: 12311 (02/09/08 4:08 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"The way I saw it, we have Parvati's confessional about being more than just a flirt, and then what does she do? She flirts with James and forms a couples alliance." Parvati played an excellent social and flirting game in Cook Islands.The point isn't to stop doing that, it is to add on a strategic game. In Cook Islands, she sat back and let Adam and Jonathan screw up in the crucial Jenny and Nate boot episode. On many occasions, others came to her plans and she was the swing vote. But in ep.1, Parvati is shown taking the lead, stategizing with JFP, plotting to blindside Eliza, much as Jonathan and Yul would. It's interesting that Parvati got positive SPV from her nemeisis Jonathan. She's "a great social player." Eliza gets negative commentary from American's Fav, Ozzy, about being untrustworthy. The way Parvati polarizes posters reminds me of Jenna M. I think a lot of it says more about how we respond to the achetype of the flirty, sexy female than it does about Parv or the editing. Last Edited By: craig 02/09/08 4:24 PM. Edited 2 times.
winterland121072		#223	[-]
Posts: 951 (02/09/08 4:13 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: "The way I saw it, we have Parvati's confessional about being more than just a flirt, and then what does she do? She flirts with James and forms a couples alliance." Parvati played an excellent social and flirting gamne in Cook Islands.The point isn't to stop doing that, it is to add a strategic game onto it. In Cook Islands she sat back and let Adam and Jonathan screw up in the crucial Jenny and Nate boot episode. In ep.1 Parvati is shown taking the lead, stategizing with JFP, plotting to blindside Eliza, the way Jonathan and Yul would in Cook Islands. In S13 other came to her with plans and she was the swing vote interesting that Parvati got positive SPV from her nemeisis Jonathan. She's "a great social player." Eliza gets negative commentary from American's Top Fave, Ozzy, about being untrustworthy. The way Parvati polarizes people reminds me of Jenna M. I think a lot of it says more about how we respond to the achetype of the flirty, sexy female than it does about Parv or the editing. She has positioned herself very well. James showed us in China that he will remain loyal to a fault. Parvati couldn't have picked a better person to ally with in that respect. After one episode, I'd say Parvati is doing very very well...Also, Survivor has never had an alliance comprising two romantic couples...Should be very interesting.
Lemun		#224	[-]
Posts: 248 (02/09/08 4:17 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well Jedi, that's why I am keeping an eye on Tracy, because my friend did NOT remember her even though she had a ton of airtime. And, she did comment on the first boot, which is a common thing for winners to do.
craig		#225	[-]
Posts: 12312 (10/13/11 2:02 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	"Survivor has never had an alliance comprising two romantic couples." Actually Parv + Nate and Adam + Candice. Notice we often saw Parvati talking about flirting with gusto, and it was Adam and Candice who drew comments from others. Looks like the Ozzy and Amanda pair will draw more attention net episode too. In regard to CL's comment awhile back about Parvati being the sort who would list Pretty Woman as her favourite movie. From her Myspace: " i have a deep love for old school italian cinema- Blow Up, Otto e Mezzo, Dolce Vita.. Will Ferrell for laughs, Angelina and Clooney for sexy" Last Edited By: craig 02/09/08 5:00 PM. Edited 1 times.
colleenlover		#226	[-]
Posts: 7716 (02/09/08 5:26 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Ah shit! I love Blow Up and La Dolce Vita too. Damn her. Well, she better start saying self-deprecating comments then. But I don't think I can take this season if she goes far and you add a Jenna M comment to everything she does -"actually her sixteen sentence in episode 94 is similar to when Jenna M walked in segment 132 in episode 19 and by the transitive property..." I was so hoping Fairplay lasted so you could focus on him. Damn, damn, damn. Oo get constant bragging rights with Amber, you might get it with Parvarti, and I have egg on my face since Colleen turned down the first allstars. Life is unjust. xoxox
Oowatanite		#227	[-]
Posts: 4710 (02/09/08 5:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AMBER : THE ULTIMATE SURVIVOR !!!!
Kitty Pryde1		#228	[-]
Posts: 2495 (02/09/08 5:42 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	More like Amber, the chick who MARRIED the ultimate Survivor.
Jedijake		#229	[-]
Posts: 4785 (02/09/08 5:56 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Kitty and Oowat-I HOPE to HELL you two were just joking! LOL Second episodes are always very telling from an editing standpoint. First episodes give us first impressions (hopefully). Very often, second episodes can either reinforce it (like Todd, Yul, Tom, and Earl), sometimes stronger OR reverse them quickly. Since there are several possible winner edits from episode 1, it'll be interesting to see if we can sort out the muck after Epy 2. Sometimes those who were very positive in episode 1 display their dark side in episode 2, making them drop in their ratings. Also, otherwise visible and seemingly important people in episode 2 often vanish and become invisible in episode 2, thus eliminating them from contention. A winner never emerges suddenly in episode 3 after not even being considered in the first 2 episodes. Only twice has someone emerged in episode 2 (Tina and Danni). However, a LOT of people fall after episode 2.
Oowatanite		#230	[-]
Posts: 4711 (02/09/08 6:08 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Who's joking ? The winner of Survivor AllStars was also given the title "Ultimate Survivor". Probst even said it himself when Amber won. And I'm sure that CL will back me up on this. Right, CL ?
chaperone		#231	[-]
Posts: 2327 (02/09/08 7:16 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	winterland121072 wrote: I wonder if both alliances compared notes and agreed to vote out fairplay and let Cirie in on the vote. We shouldn't be too quick to assume Cirie isn't in and solidly on an alliance. Denise was in a tight alliance from the first vote on but we never heard anything from her. Were Cirie's comments in a confessional? (And, "anyone but me" does not mean "I'm not in an alliance") Was there a clearly dilineated 4 personal alliance between the two showmance couples? That was Eliza observing it, did we hear Ozzy or someone say "me, Amanda, James, and Parv are in a tight foursome", I think all we heard was Parv saying "I bet we could get Amanda and Ozzy". ETA: Different topic, I think a mixed tone rating for Kathy is symptomatic of our over use of the rating. Watching her, she clearly was colored by the editing, and I believe negatively. With the presence of a mixed neutral rating it's too easy to say "well she wasn't mean so I say she's mixed." Mixed means some P and some N. She had no P. (unless she went where Parvati was swimming) She was N, it's not a Fairplay N, it's not a Judd N, but it's an N. I believe if she was mixed, you'd probably see some people giving her a P and some giving her an N. But has anyone who's posted their ratings to the boards here given her a P? Not that I'm aware. Many have given her an N, and some Mixed neutral, but nobody has suggested she's P. That says something in my mind. Last Edited By: chaperone 02/09/08 7:47 PM. Edited 1 times.
AllMenAreIslands		#232	[-]
Posts: 23134 (02/09/08 7:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Winterland, that was one of the best Watchdog reports I've ever seen. :)
AllMenAreIslands		#233	[-]
Posts: 23135 (02/09/08 7:52 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	craig wrote: The way Parvati polarizes posters reminds me of Jenna M. I think a lot of it says more about how we respond to the achetype of the flirty, sexy female than it does about Parv or the editing. I'll be happy if Parvati wins, since I'll win the office pool ($190). So yay! Go Parvati.
Seyz		#234	[-]
Posts: 97 (02/09/08 8:00 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think it was interesting that colleenlover pointed out animal imagery for Eliza. (the snake) Was she the only one that got animal imagery this first episode? Isn't that always a big point? And once again Amanda doesn't have much to say the first episode, but this was similar to last season, yet she got into the final 3 and for awhile a lot of people were convinced she would win Survivor; China. I think I'm really unconvinced for anyone having a strong case to be the winner at the moment. I think everyone (even Cirie and Amanda) had enough face time and manipulated editing that they could win. The only person I am pretty sure won't win based on editing was James. Once again he has no strategic editing whatsoever. He was just portrayed as being a physical asset once again.
winterland121072		#235	[-]
Posts: 952 (02/09/08 8:56 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Seyz wrote: I think it was interesting that colleenlover pointed out animal imagery for Eliza. (the snake) Was she the only one that got animal imagery this first episode? Isn't that always a big point? And once again Amanda doesn't have much to say the first episode, but this was similar to last season, yet she got into the final 3 and for awhile a lot of people were convinced she would win Survivor; China. I think I'm really unconvinced for anyone having a strong case to be the winner at the moment. I think everyone (even Cirie and Amanda) had enough face time and manipulated editing that they could win. The only person I am pretty sure won't win based on editing was James. Once again he has no strategic editing whatsoever. He was just portrayed as being a physical asset once again. There was a shark shown swimming just prior to showing Fairplay and Ami walking on the beach. Ami // Shark....?
Monkeyhunt		#236	[-]
Posts: 1615 (02/09/08 9:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And once again Amanda doesn't have much to say the first episode, but this was similar to last season, yet she got into the final 3 and for awhile a lot of people were convinced she would win Survivor; China. But she didn't win. And she's not gonna win this one, either. No one's saying she won't do well again, but she sure as hell ain't winning.
fat little fingers		#237	[-]
Posts: 5209 (02/09/08 9:43 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	(Finally managed to take notes from the CBS ep site. Not recommended.) The Theme The theme is "The Ultimate Game with a new twist, Fans vs Favorites" (Jeff's intro from the helicopter). This is the game for the fans to win and the faves to lose. This is the way all of the game comments are formed. The Fans Of the fans, Alexis made the most significant early comment. It came third in the opening beach scene: Alexis, "I think the fans vs favorites is the ultimate challenge, because the favorites have been here before and have experience. At the same time, you have us and we know their game. We know not only their strengths, but their weaknesses too. And I think that puts us at a huge advantage." That's the biggest and most dynamic of any confessional in the episode. It lays out the game: experience vs fans (or vicarious experience). "ultimate challenge" echoes Jeff's "ultimate game" that came at the very end of the preceding scene. Chet, later, adds to Alexis' comment, "We have the advantage. We know how they play. They don't know a damned thing about us!" Mikey B has the only other fan comment I see as coming from a possible game winner, "...The favorites are chuckling at us. They're not looking at us as competitors. That's good! Even better, 'underdog'. We'll take that role!" The Faves Alexis spells out the faves' obstacle and key to winning: "..we know their game. We know not only their strengths, but their weaknesses too." The Intro addresses their past experience: Jonathan- "Red Sox"...."ass handed to you." No comment on the need to change his tactics; totally confident in the faves. Jonny- Totally self-absorbed in his own ego....or just goofing, but still totally self-absorbed. Parvati- "Coming back, I'm playing aggressively...It's no-holds-barred for me." First faves game comment that speaks to the need to change her game to win. Yau-Man- "The only reason I've come back is the million dollars." He talks of the end game, but with no passion for the game. Not good. Cirie- She's the same person she was before, the couch potato. "Same" is bad for the favorites. James- Says he's a fan of the Faves. Hand him a bag of popcorn and a pennant to wave, 'cause he's not winning. Ozzy- He's aware that "Everyone wants to beat me." But, sadly he only hopes to, "tap into that energy and will that I had last time." Sounds sorta good, but you have to speak of making game changes. Alexis, Chet, and Mikey B. say they can beat you at your old game. I agree that their absence from these comments is very bad for Amanda, Ami, and Eliza. The rest of the Faves comments don't match Alexis' first confessional, except: Parvati's confessional in Malakal's first beach scene is the only one that stands out enough for me. It continues her original intro comment: "I was a flirt on Cook islands and had no other dimension to me." (Cut to her flirting with James.) "Outwardly I'm going to be flirty, but I'm playing smart this time." Her flirting scenes this time are very different from Cook Islands. She's very self-aware (very good for a winner) and is conscious of her need to play better and more importantly, different. This is the best comment to a player's end game on the Fave tribe. Ozzy continues his theme as well, but it also continues with what I see as a fatal flaw: "...That we played before is an advantage....An expectation that we have to live up to." Ozzy is living in the past. The big advantage he sees in the past is the key to the fans' winning, according to Alexis, Chet, and Mikey B. Eliza is full of awareness of her tribemates coupling and Ami is alert and intelligent about Fairplay, but both of these aspects are related to the immediate episode. That's never where we find the winner or the end game players. Eliza is knocked down even more by all the hints that she is "annoying" -Twila, "shifty, crafty, ...can't trust her" -Ozzy, and snakey -Parvati. Based on theme and end game comments There really was a lot more potentially going on in Malakal, but if I had to choose from ep1 alone, I'd list only: Alexis- The most complete comment on the season and it came in the opening scene. No one even close, except for: Parvati- Who was the only Fave to address her past play as something she needed to change and improve to win. And she is given a second comment later in the episode that anchors the same points. Last Edited By: fat little fingers 02/09/08 9:50 PM. Edited 2 times.
Monkeyhunt		#238	[-]
Posts: 1616 (02/09/08 9:51 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Nice post, flf. That's something that I've been thinking about, how Alexis and Parvati were tied together to some extent, in how their comments are related. What seems important to me is that you know that the other faves were asked about the mistakes they made before and how they are going to change their game - but Parvati was the only one who was shown making those statements. She's important, whether because she becomes an obstacle to be toppled or she adjusts her game, plays more aggressively, and wins. Alexis too will be important; she was the fan used to establish the themes that the season's conflict will probably revolve around.
Brazil Luvs Ami		#239	[-]
Posts: 6 (02/09/08 9:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	winterland121072 wrote: Seyz wrote: I think it was interesting that colleenlover pointed out animal imagery for Eliza. (the snake) Was she the only one that got animal imagery this first episode? Isn't that always a big point? And once again Amanda doesn't have much to say the first episode, but this was similar to last season, yet she got into the final 3 and for awhile a lot of people were convinced she would win Survivor; China. I think I'm really unconvinced for anyone having a strong case to be the winner at the moment. I think everyone (even Cirie and Amanda) had enough face time and manipulated editing that they could win. The only person I am pretty sure won't win based on editing was James. Once again he has no strategic editing whatsoever. He was just portrayed as being a physical asset once again. There was a shark shown swimming just prior to showing Fairplay and Ami walking on the beach. Ami // Shark....? winterland I found this interesting also. But I don't think that the shark is related to Ami or Fairplay, but to the favorites... If you rewatch (again) you will see that a ray (or stinray) is showed before showing the fans' camp, and the shark is showed before showing the faves' camp.. I really don't know what it means...
Jedijake		#240	[-]
Posts: 4787 (02/09/08 10:02 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	For the record, Alexis' first episode was not far removed from Yul's first episode. Yul had 3 confessionals while Alexis had 2, but there was one deep game-based confessional and one, more personal confessional about a player. Unfortunately, however, it was not that different from Sundra's either. Sundra's first episode in CI was pretty big too (about different cultures and races coming together). So pick your poison.

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