Final 3 again...meh

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Everything is Eventual		#61	[-]
Posts: 1317 (11/02/07 7:55 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I love Rafe...I hope he wins...wait...uhhh...I mean Amanda...I hope Amanda wins...
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#62	[-]
Posts: 1514 (11/02/07 8:09 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	How do we know it will be a f3? There might be an episode where noone leaves, but thats highly unlikely. Maybe the winner of f3 immunity gets like some kind of advantage where they can remove one jury member
tdugan333		#63	[-]
Posts: 66 (11/02/07 8:13 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SnarkyMark wrote: I hope Amanda and Todd make it to F3 and then they bring a goat... and then JR/maybe James votes for Amanda because he hates Todd and Denise/Frosti or Courtney vote for Todd and then the rest of ZH votes for the goat. I would love to see a goat win. No offense, but WTH? Can you translate that for me?
SnarkyMark		#64	[-]
Posts: 4381 (11/02/07 8:18 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Okay, let's say Todd and Amanda make F3. They either bring a goat or maybe someone from Zhan Hu lucks out and gets F4 immunity (Frosti, maybe). So it's Todd/Amanda/Frosti F3. JR just said if he's ever screwed over he'll hold Todd responsible, and you know there are always a couple of bitter people in the jury. So JR rallies for Amanda because he doesn't want Todd to win. He manages to swing one person. So two people vote for Amanda, two for Todd, and then Peih Gee/Jaime/Erik vote for Frosti because they don't want to see T/A win. 3/2/2 Frosti wins.
sweEt Mauritius		#65	[-]
Posts: 593 (11/02/07 2:15 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	leather bunky wrote: But Final 2 does have its draw back. With the assumption that final three would be endurance before final two... In Fiji. Dreamz vs Cassandra. Cassandra would be the boring winner. In Cook Islands. Ozzy vs Becky. Boring landslide win. On the other hand, in the final 3 scenario: In Exile Island, Terry would have won over boring Aras! Guatemala, Rafe would have won over boring Danni. No boring landslide win against Stephenie's one vote. Palau, Tom would have still won but the cast for the winning votes would be more suspenseful against Ian rather than another landslide win. In Thailand, Jan would have won! In Borneo, Rudy would have won! I hate to break it to you, but Fiji and Cook Islands sucked, so having bad winners wouldn't have really changed anything. Instead we got the two most boring and predictable winners ever. Not much better. Also, if there was a final 3, as others have said, there would have been different dynamic and the final 3 wouldn't have been the same. So you can't say "Terry would have won over boring Aras" (since when was Terry more interesting than Aras?), Rafe would have won, or Jan or Rudy would have won (as much as I love them, THANK GOD Jan and Rudy didn't win). Anyway, let's just agree the final 3 sucks. I have NO idea why the hell the producers keep with it. As someone else said, it backfired after just one season!!! It also created two of the most boring winners, pretty much the two most universally hated seasons, and two of the worst finales. It just makes absolutely NO SENSE to keep the final 3! Ugh how are the producers so stupid?
PrettyGoodYear1988		#66	[-]
Posts: 483 (11/02/07 2:28 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	We still don't know if there's an F3. I think it would be interesting to see the Final IC winner get some kind of advantage. Eliminating one Jury member would probably be the most logical choice, and it would make the Final TC interesting. Still, I don't think an F3 could ruin this season. China's just been too good so far. Fiji and Cook Islands sucked not because of the F3, but because of the huge amount of Survivors who were invisible throughout the entire show.
WylDawg		#67	[-]
Posts: 12853 (11/02/07 2:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If there's a tie, Rupert wins. I agree that it's not fun watching a "Tom" slaughter a "Katie" in front of the jury, but it's always been a part of this game. In order to win, you have to find a way to bring a Becky/Cassandra/insert name of another random useless bitch here to the final 2.
solesurvivor01		#68	[-]
Posts: 140 (11/02/07 2:35 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^^I played in an online game that did that, the F3IC winner got to revoke one juror of his voting power. But I don't think the producres would actually do that. It's just a F3 with a smaller jury. Yes, it sucks, but we should just accept it cause I don't think it's ever going to be changed.
beatles20147		#69	[-]
Posts: 11093 (11/02/07 3:17 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I agree that it's not fun watching a "Tom" slaughter a "Katie" in front of the jury, but it's always been a part of this game. In order to win, you have to find a way to bring a Becky/Cassandra/insert name of another random useless bitch here to the final 2. See, I disagree with this. Ok, so everybody knew that Katie didn't have a chance against Tom. There really wasn't any suspense. And yeah, it really could've gone either way between Yul and Ozzy. But does anyone actually remember anything about the CI final TC at all? I remember most of the jurors just ignored Becky and I vaguely recall Candice jokingly chastising Yul for his answer to her question, but that's it. But Palau? I loved watching everyone bash the hell out of Katie. She'd gotten a free ride to the final two as the ultimate goat, and the jury showed her absolutely no mercy for it. It was a lot of fun to watch. Now imagine that Tom/Ian/Katie are facing the jury. Sure, we're in for a tight vote between Tom and Ian. But Gregg's classic speech, Caryn's spot-on comments...never would've happened. The jury would know that Katie wouldn't have a shot and would ignore her just like Becky was. I'm not gonna deny that Dreamz and to a lesser degree Cassandra got a hard time from the jury, but all it really translated to was Earl winning by default. What would you rather have: a bland final TC with 30 seconds of suspense as Jeff reads the votes, or knowing who wins but having 15 minutes of hilarity watching the goat take a beating from the jury?
Jack Tourette		#70	[-]
Posts: 328 (11/02/07 3:22 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	But the goat being beaten by the jury is (no pun intended regarding Exile Island), beating a dead horse. It's boring now, it's predictable and at the end of the day nobody remembers the Jury Questions (except for Susan's infamous speech), and everyone remembers the winner and a close battle to the finish.
shanefairplay		#71	[-]
Posts: 8 (11/02/07 4:10 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	FINAL THREE HATE!!!! tears hair out
sweEt Mauritius		#72	[-]
Posts: 594 (11/02/07 5:29 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	beatles20147 wrote: I agree that it's not fun watching a "Tom" slaughter a "Katie" in front of the jury, but it's always been a part of this game. In order to win, you have to find a way to bring a Becky/Cassandra/insert name of another random useless bitch here to the final 2. See, I disagree with this. Ok, so everybody knew that Katie didn't have a chance against Tom. There really wasn't any suspense. And yeah, it really could've gone either way between Yul and Ozzy. But does anyone actually remember anything about the CI final TC at all? I remember most of the jurors just ignored Becky and I vaguely recall Candice jokingly chastising Yul for his answer to her question, but that's it. But Palau? I loved watching everyone bash the hell out of Katie. She'd gotten a free ride to the final two as the ultimate goat, and the jury showed her absolutely no mercy for it. It was a lot of fun to watch. Now imagine that Tom/Ian/Katie are facing the jury. Sure, we're in for a tight vote between Tom and Ian. But Gregg's classic speech, Caryn's spot-on comments...never would've happened. The jury would know that Katie wouldn't have a shot and would ignore her just like Becky was. I'm not gonna deny that Dreamz and to a lesser degree Cassandra got a hard time from the jury, but all it really translated to was Earl winning by default. What would you rather have: a bland final TC with 30 seconds of suspense as Jeff reads the votes, or knowing who wins but having 15 minutes of hilarity watching the goat take a beating from the jury? VERY well said. Great points. Sucks that the final three is probably (I can't bear thinking of it being a guarantee) here to stay.
tdugan333		#73	[-]
Posts: 68 (11/02/07 6:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SnarkyMark wrote: Okay, let's say Todd and Amanda make F3. They either bring a goat or maybe someone from Zhan Hu lucks out and gets F4 immunity (Frosti, maybe). So it's Todd/Amanda/Frosti F3. JR just said if he's ever screwed over he'll hold Todd responsible, and you know there are always a couple of bitter people in the jury. So JR rallies for Amanda because he doesn't want Todd to win. He manages to swing one person. So two people vote for Amanda, two for Todd, and then Peih Gee/Jaime/Erik vote for Frosti because they don't want to see T/A win. 3/2/2 Frosti wins. Thanks. Got it now. That would be kind of fun to see.
Quiddity		#74	[-]
Posts: 1422 (11/02/07 7:39 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	On the other hand, in the final 3 scenario: In Exile Island, Terry would have won over boring Aras! Guatemala, Rafe would have won over boring Danni. No boring landslide win against Stephenie's one vote. Palau, Tom would have still won but the cast for the winning votes would be more suspenseful against Ian rather than another landslide win. In Thailand, Jan would have won! In Borneo, Rudy would have won! Again, the problem is that you're assuming things go down exactly the same way, which you CANNOT assume. We all saw what happened in Fiji when Earl suddenly realized that it would be a F3 instead of a F2. He voted out his #1 ally Yaoman, knowing he'd crush the other two and have a much tougher time against Yaoman. F3 sounds great when you just take the F3 for that season. What you have to take into consideration is that people vote completely differently when they know that three people will be facing the jury instead of three people going to a final immunity challenge. The odds are all these "great possible winners" like Rudy, Kathy, Rafe, Rob C, etc... that you F3 supporters throw out there very likely end up like Yaoman and don't even make F3 in the first place.
Survivorjus	re: Katie v. Tom	#75	[-]
Posts: 112 (11/03/07 11:40 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I know this is not an analyze the Katie v. Tom situation thread... but does anyone else think Katie could have had a chance if she presented her case differently? If she had alloted her laziness to strategy - knowing she didn't have the physical strength to beat out Tom or Ian, she made herself the perfect "goat", because that was her only chance of making it to the final 2. Tom played a strong physical game, but his strategy game kinda sucked. Had he not been such a force in challenges, I don't think he would have faired well. Katie was never on anyone's radar, whereas Tom always was - everyone knew they either had to get him out or team up with him - and Katie was smart enough to allign with him first. I also think had Katie made stronger strategic moves (ie Teaming up with Greg and Jen) she could have presented that to the jury in the end. She played the cards she had though - personable, loyal and mentally knew what she had to do to get to the final 3 - it was similar to the Sandra strategy - aslong as it wasnt her, and teaming up with the stronger people when they needed her vote. I just think the "oh poor me" approach at the jury and not twisting their comments to seem more like a purposeful strategy was unfortunate. She might have gotten more than 1 vote. ANYWAY.... for more fun "what ifs": Final 3 - Vanuatu - boring. No change. Scout =goat. Final 3 - Pearl Islands - I would have loved to see Jon try and get jury votes - so entertaining. But I think the result would have been the same - Lil = goat. Final 3 - Amazon - Ummm yea. Rob should have destroyed. Would the jury have been spiteful though? Perhaps. Final 3 - Marquesas - Kathy would have destroyed. Massacre. Done. Vee would have definately been the goat. Neleh may have gotten a couple votes (Pappy). Final 3 - Africa - I think Ethan still would have won. Final 3 - Australia - I know Keith wouldn't have had any affect by getting votes, but I wonder had Colby not had to choose Tina over Keith infront of the jury, if they would have voted differently - ie Jerri's vote "your greatest strategic move of all was getting Colby to pick you over Keith".
Quiddity		#76	[-]
Posts: 1423 (11/03/07 12:05 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	bangs head against the wall
finishthemoff		#77	[-]
Posts: 6710 (11/03/07 2:37 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	In Thailand, Jan would have won! Never in a million year would that happens. If anything.. she would take vote away from Clay but not much else. Jan is one of the least respect players in Thailand who basically do anything as Brian instruct her to do. Shi Ann, Robb and Stephanie would vote for Brian over Jan and Clay. My real concern is that F3 made HII completely irrelevant. As much as I love endurance challenges, I hate the one that fixed against certain players against certain players like Terry and Rob. For all what it is worth, Richard would have vote out Ruby and bring in Susan. Tina-Keith-Colby remains the same Ethan-Lex-Kim J would remains the same Vee-Neleh-Kathy would have been interesting. Brian-Clay-Jan would have result in Brian's victory by default Rob-Matt-Jenna would have been interesting and very close JFP-Sandra-Lill would have result in Little Jon's win ASS would have a trio of the worst three Vanatu would have been interesting.. in fact.. Scout may have actually beat Chris (though I doubt it) Palau-final three would have been great Guatamela - Rafe would never win against Danni. To have any chance of winning, he would need to vote out Lydia though interview indicates that he would choose Danni over Lydia. Exile Island - Terry would have won and get everyone but Cirie's vote. Terry and Bruce were close, so Bruce would vote for Terry. Cook Island- Ozzy would have won the game if F3 were dropped Fiji Island- Dre and Cassandra would have been the most depressing Final Two yet.
aboutbreakingrules	Love to dish it out, but can't take it	#78	[-]
Posts: 29 (11/03/07 3:36 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	sweEt Mauritius wrote: Sucks that the final three is probably (I can't bear thinking of it being a guarantee) here to stay. The producers hated the idea of seeing one player bring an unlikeable player to the endgame to create a sure thing. They were clearly sore about being beaten at their own game, so they rewrote the rules in midstream. They don't like being caught with their pants down but have no problems doing the same to the contestants. If for nothing else, God bless Mellisa McNulty for forcing Mark Burnett and his cronies to feel their pain. Survivor is no longer reality television's gold standard, and it's eventually going to vanish. You can only fuck with the viewers for so long.
survivorisdestiny		#79	[-]
Posts: 1298 (11/03/07 5:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	beatles20147 wrote: What would you rather have: a bland final TC with 30 seconds of suspense as Jeff reads the votes, or knowing who wins but having 15 minutes of hilarity watching the goat take a beating from the jury? Thank you, beatles. Also, the suspense from the F3 vote is equal to that from a F3 challenge. When it was Tom vs. Ian, you knew the challenge was going to determine the winner, so it made it much more exciting. It was basically the same as a F3 TC when you think about it. Had Katie won, the suspense would have lasted much longer than 30 seconds, starting from the time she until they read her vote. So what I'm trying to say is that Surivivor China was two steps in the right direction, but also one step backwards.
f2goat		#80	[-]
Posts: 62 (11/03/07 7:15 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Survivorjus wrote: ANYWAY.... for more fun "what ifs": Final 3 - Australia - I know Keith wouldn't have had any affect by getting votes, but I wonder had Colby not had to choose Tina over Keith infront of the jury, if they would have voted differently - ie Jerri's vote "your greatest strategic move of all was getting Colby to pick you over Keith". But it's even more complicated to analyze hypothetical F3s from the past, because the 10th place finisher would have replaced the 3rd place finisher on the jury. In Australia, this means that Keith - who voted for Tina - would not have been on the jury. Jeff would have been on the jury instead. Would Jeff have voted for Tina or Colby? Sure, he tried to orchestrate Colby's ouster in the episode where he was booted, but he might have respected Colby's game play. Other components to the F3: 1. It basically takes an alliance of at least 3 to get to the end. This means that when you have an F2, the person booted at F3 has usually been betrayed (except in weird cases like Rafe or Ian). The F3 bootee has an incentive to lean against the winner of the F3 IC. And I think that MB/JP don't like the F2 goat strategy. 2. When you have an F3, the last bootee at F4 has to be taken out either by ALL of the other 3 (in a 3-1 vote) or in a tiebreaker after a 2-2 vote (okay, a 2-1-1 boot is possible but unlikely). So the last bootee will be less likely to bear a specific grudge against one player for being booted and may therefore be fairer. It's hard to take two goats to the F3, so I like the F3 because it may actually lead to a decent debate about who should win.

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