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 colleenlover |
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Posts: 7166 (10/11/07 12:44 PM) Registered User |
But what if, say, Cirie and Terry were the Exile Island final 2. Would we expect them to be downplayed? Or at least the winner to be downplayed? I
wouldn't see the need.
Yeah, exactly -there really is no need. The reality itself provides the magic trick. The suspense is already there in real life. |
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GretchenIsMyGod |
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Posts: 2783 (10/11/07 1:19 PM) Registered User |
Yeah, exactly -there really is no need. The reality itself provides the magic trick. The suspense is already there in real life.Great! That's something that I don't think is taken into account. Was there another reason that Cirie and Terry were generally ruled out? Or was it just that Aras was so obviously manipulated that he became a clear front-runner? That was the one season I didn't participate in Edgic at all. Another example is Stephenie in Palau, and her elimination by many people because she had too much focus. Well, what do you expect should she win, then? |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 7167 (10/11/07 1:39 PM) Registered User |
gretchen. that is why I always dogtag certain people as inconclusive at certain times. -they can't be ruled out because their situation would be shown
regardless. However, we look at other people then and see if there is something being so manipulated and if there is a reason.
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Pulau Tiga |
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Posts: 2397 (10/11/07 2:28 PM) Registered user |
GretchenIsMyGod wrote: For my part, I ruled out Terry because he was getting far too much negative attention. Yes, his game position made him a huge underdog. But the editors
showed him as someone that alienated Casaya and screwed up his game. Deserving player? Sure, he was shown to be dominant and strong. But he was also shown to
have some huge faults, and the editors made sure to manipulate his edit so that there was some clear reasoning presented for why he ultimately lost. As for
Cirie, there was never any doubt for her. Her whole edit was turning from the couch potato outcast that was afraid of leaves into the dominant strategic/social
player that was working things left and right. Had she won, we would have seen some doubt as to whether she'd complete the transformation. We would have
seen a weakness in her planning, a point where she was in danger and her shift into a great player might not come to fruition. But we never got that. Her story
was far too straightforward to be the winner's.
Another example is Stephenie in Palau, and her elimination by many people because she had too much focus. Well, what do you expect should she win, then?I've never heard that people eliminated Stephenie because she got so much attention. I personally eliminated her because she got so much negative attention. If you have your fan favorite underdog win during her second chance, you make her look really good, you play her up, and you, like always, throw in some doubt after the merge that she's in trouble. Hell, maybe you even make a game about the world being against her, in order to continue her Ulong story. But you don't show her as an unlikable bitch. |
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GretchenIsMyGod |
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Posts: 2784 (10/11/07 3:16 PM) Registered User |
(I meant Palau Steph, not Guat Steph)
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 984 (10/11/07 3:49 PM) |
After the premiere of Exile Island, Terry stood out as a great winning candidate, primarily because he was talked about but had not commented much himself.
When the presence is felt, but is understated, that's the best position to be in. After the next couple of episodes, Terry's presence became all that
was important about his tribe. That's a distraction - if he had won, we would have seen more comment from the other players to down play his dominance
until it had to be shown post-merge. Post-merge, I don't think that much would have changed in Terry's edit since the doubt was already present.
Perhaps his immunity streak would have been presented more in the sense of "can he keep it up?" instead of "can anyone beat him?" It is a
subtle change, but it changes the whole outlook.
Cirie was the decoy boot in the premiere, from which not much can be said for certain, but in the next few episodes she went to clever sympathetic positive underdog. Players who get this edit just don't win. They are portrayed in this way to lure rooters and distract from the true winner. If she had won, we may have seen some discussion that she was in a bad situation, but we certainly wouldn't have had the same point made episode after episode. Instead of hiding her relationship with Aras, let us see her along with everyone else competing for Aras' support. Spotlight Aras or even Danielle to be the distraction instead. That doesn't mean the editors don't show Cirie, it just means her appearances revolve around others and seem more supplemental to the story. (Think Sandra in S7 for an example.) Her big moment is getting Courtney booted - there's no chance that that isn't shown, but if the rest of her edit is tempered, it can be shown, just like Yul's big moment of getting Jonathan to flip in S13. The key down the stretch is playing up the likelihood that neither Aras nor Danielle (and especially not Terry) will take her to the end. Then we're surprised when Aras does so to his own demise. |
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Prydefull |
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Posts: 431 (10/11/07 5:55 PM) Registered user |
TheLurkerSpeaks wrote: Sandra. Decoy boot first episode. Stepped into the foil to evil Fairplay, positive underdog role. And won.
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 7169 (10/11/07 6:00 PM) Registered User |
yes, but also they can be the underdog if it really happened, but we need some threads to the tribal council jury questions.
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shawnoverboard |
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Posts: 115 (10/11/07 8:31 PM) Registered User |
Prydefull wrote: I know (from DVD commentary) that Sandra was to be the boot had Drake lost the first Immunity Challenge, but is that enough to call her the decoy boot if this fact wasn't actually illustrated in the episode itself? Based on what we originally saw, I would have cast Lil or Skinny Ryan for that role instead. |
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Jeff P3 |
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Posts: 1230 (10/11/07 10:15 PM) |
Sandra was not the episode 1 decoy boot as far as editing goes. We never got a hint of that. There was alot of positive stuff for Sandra from the village
scenes. The decoy boots on Drake, if any, were Burton and Shawn. However, the real decoy boots of the episode were Ryan S. and Lil, both of whom were the next
two people voted out anyways.
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Green Coffee |
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Posts: 49 (10/11/07 10:59 PM) Registered user |
Being a decoy boot has nothing to do with editing a winner, in my opinion. If a person gets the 2nd most number of votes at tribal council, the editors MUST
construct some sort of doubt for that person so that it appears possible they will leave. Otherwise, you have a predictable tribal council, or the audience is
baffled as to why a player received so many votes. Being a winner does not preclude you from receiving this treatment at some point during the game, even in
episode one.
Further, wasn't Chris a decoy boot in Vanuatu, being the target of Brook's clique? My gut reaction to this episode: No one wins Survivor China at this point, in my mind (conclusively anyway). Todd - One note strategery. The million dollar quote can be a good thing in episode 1, but the fact that he has gone back to it is not good for his chances, if you ask me. He was less visible this time around, but he's still a major player in every episode and its always strategy related. Amanda is still low visibility in an environment where much more complexity should be possible (although her comment about culture bodes well for her). I won't eliminate her yet, but she's not who I see winning. Aaron is going down quick. Needs some complexity at the next Fei Long TC for sure. Courtney is still the bitchy narrator, this time whining about JR again. She's entertainment, but not looking important in the least. Jean Robert probably won't win with his super negative and oafish behavior last episode but at this point, he's looking better and better each week. PG needs a boost of visibility but she continues to get scenes that are otherwise completely irrelevant, like the marking of the day. Either she is window dressing, or she is being kept in our minds, ever so slightly, so that when she does interact with characters who make the endgame, it won't be "who is this PG person?" Its looking like Zhan Hu is doomed to the land of Pagong soon, with such tribal dysfunction. With this situation, presuming PG survives to the merge, why would the editors spend a great deal of time fleshing out her relationships and strategies on Zhan Hu? Everyone is in agreeance that none of them will last to the end and it makes sense that few would be on the jury. Of all the remaining 5 ZH's, why has PG been visible in every episode, while the others have not? Was Dave distraction #1, while the showmance between Jaime and Erik will soon be distraction #2? Due to her low visibility, I can't call her my winner just yet. However, considering the situation (and the lack of a clear winner on Fei Long, despite it being the one with all of the focus), I would probably say she's still one of my frontrunners. |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 986 (10/12/07 8:17 AM) |
My reference was not to Cirie being the decoy boot in the first episode. As I said, we could draw no conclusions from that. It was to her being portrayed as
the positive underdog continuously right through the merge. No winner gets that edit, especially when she wasn't even in danger by Episode 3.
Sandra was never portrayed as an underdog until Rupert was booted, much later in the season, and even then, she wasn't strictly positive. It isn't a valid comparison. Sandra is instead how Cirie might have been edited if she had won. |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 987 (10/12/07 8:33 AM) |
Comments after Episode 4:
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Prydefull |
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Posts: 437 (10/12/07 8:38 AM) Registered user |
TheLurkerSpeaks wrote:
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 989 (10/12/07 8:44 AM) |
Apparently, you don't know what the phrase "splitting hairs" actually means.
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 7175 (10/12/07 8:50 AM) Registered User |
Wow, lurker -Aaron is at the top of your list?
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 990 (10/12/07 9:29 AM) |
Yes - his edit is actually fairly similar to Aras to this stage though Aras had had one big episode (that was somewhat negative for him) by this point. Aaron
probably needs one soon to stay on top, but he's remarkably well positioned, and certainly stands out more than Amanda. He's certainly no lock though,
and if he fails to further develop at least to some degree, he'll go the route of other toneless MOR's like Scout in S9.
A bigger reason he's so high is that I can't make a compelling case for anyone else. I like Peih Gee's edit though the odds of her winning are really quite low based upon her situation. I tend to think Todd is too obvious and out front to win, and Amanda has her position on the list mainly because I can't rule her out, and everyone else seems so fond of her chances. While Courtney hasn't been as one note as she seemed she was going to be in the first episode, she still doesn't feel like a great Edgic fit. James may still pull something off, but I really tend to doubt it after last week's super evil edit. I've all but eliminated everyone else. |
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GretchenIsMyGod |
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Posts: 2785 (10/14/07 11:42 AM) Registered User |
Did anyone else catch the reaction to Leslie's departure? Shot of Jaime reacting (obviously), then a shot of Amanda, as if she were responsible.
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OnlyMatthew |
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Posts: 425 (10/18/07 7:39 PM) Registered user |
This is just something I was thinking during the episode - it happened at the end of tribal council. So, remember the intro of Ashley and the snake occurrence
after her shot? It never really had any value, since she wasn't really much of a snake or a deceitful liar. But, tonight, at the end of tribal council,
when they were playing the Survivor theme music, they played the music high-pitched note that plays with the snake picture (in the intro) in accordance to a
long shot of James. I don't know if this means anything, but it would support our current knowledge of the people; if James emerges as a huge snake.
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SwineForkbeard |
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Posts: 1338 (10/19/07 3:31 AM) Registered user
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SwineForkbeard wrote: I called it three weeks ago, and tonight's episode provided further evidence. That twist was custom made to have each team snatch the other's alpha males and dispose of them. On with the deballing of this cast. |
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